Gateside and Northbridge - Mk4 not really feasable:-(

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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joshv8
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Re: The Allanshaw Inglenook (Was Gateside and Northbridge (closed))

Postby joshv8 » Wed May 01, 2019 2:27 pm

luckymucklebackit wrote: No doubt Mrs Luckymucklebackit will have other priorities but the weekend after we move is the Troon Model Railway Exhibition, will be going to that one as it will be just down the road!

Jim


Oh for sure! My wifes about to drop our 4th ( yeah, get a tv right haha) within the next 2 weeks. Shes been warned baby or no baby myself and young William have an appointment for the Brisbane model train show this weekend.

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: The Allanshaw Inglenook (Was Gateside and Northbridge (closed))

Postby luckymucklebackit » Tue May 14, 2019 9:35 am

Well that is the move done and dusted, have to say that it went extremely smoothly! This was the scene on Thursday last with Allenshaw packed in the car for a move to a temporary storage location at my caravan

Image

I have had a look in the loft of the new house and it is very low and narrow, but very long! Access is a big issue as the hatch (in the bathroom) is very narrow due to the spacing of the joists and all the ceilings are higher than a standard room and would not be accessible by an off the shelf loft ladder. It would not be impossible to get something up there but I think that it is going to be a (very) long term aspiration. The local model railway club, Kyle MRC is having an exhibition in the local town hall this weekend and I am planning to go down and talk to the members about joining, ans seeing if I could get Allenshaw stored at the clubrooms, as I think that this would be a more workable short term solution.

Will keep you informed of how I get on this weekend.

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
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Ex-Pat
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Re: The Allanshaw Inglenook (Was Gateside and Northbridge (closed))

Postby Ex-Pat » Tue May 14, 2019 10:10 am

Good to hear that things went well and hope you get something sorted with Kyle MRC - but you'll just have to get something running somewhere in the house!

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby luckymucklebackit » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:43 pm

Gateside and Northbridge – the Epilogue, lessons Learned for a future re-incarnation......

Sorry but I just cannot let this one fade away, I gave a lot of consideration to joining a club but after discussion with Mrs Luckymucklebackit she actually encouraged me to look at building something in the loft - I think the idea of lots of weekend exhibition attendance had something to do with it, at least if I am in the loft she knows where I am!!

OK time for a bit of reflection, generally through luck more than judgement the layout looked quite good in my eyes, the different stations blended well together and there was a good Central Scottish Feel to the Layout, when everything worked the layout was great fun to work - BUT.....

What was bad - OK all new modellers planning the big layout lend me your ears - here is where I tore my hair out.

1) I skimped on the wiring, old telephone cable is cheap and it does conduct electricity, but it is brittle and wire breaks during construction and afterwards were frequent and difficult to trace sometimes, lesson learned (#1) – use good quality wire for all electrical feeds, map and identify all wires.

2) Board Construction – 2” x 1” timber was used with a chipboard top, which was OK, but having used 12mm ply for Allenshaw I see the benefit (although it is still considerable more expensive), but using old bits of furniture to support Gateside was not a good idea, lesson learned (#2) – simple – don’t skimp on the basic board construction

3) Access – This more than anything was the biggest bugbear. invariably when there were issues with locomotives stopping unexpectedly, points failing, locos and stock derailing, or couplings separating, it would happen in the most inaccessible parts of the layout, lesson learned (#3) – try and keep as much of the layout easy to access, avoid hidden track where possible and at all costs do not have pointwork in these areas

4) Planning – Gateside and Northbridge was not planned as a whole, originally it was going to be a simple terminus/fiddle yard based on Northbridge, the rest of the layout find of grew up around it, with various bits being chopped and changed, for example what eventually was Mavisbank was originally a terminus, resulting in some areas where the track layout was not optimised, lesson learned (#4) – spend as much time on planning as possible and rework everything until it is as close to optimum as possible, incorporate #3 above and design the boards (#2) to suit

5) Short cuts were taken to get things finished, for example Gateside had only four motorised points with the rest hand worked which resulted in damage when changing points after scenic details were added in front, Lesson Learned (#5) If you can’t afford the full project, wait until you can, don’t take shortcuts

Finally – Size isn’t everything – by most standards Gateside and Northbridge was a big layout with a lot of track that needed to be kept clean, a lot of locomotives and a lot of stock, this final lesson will be a hard one, if I am to proceed with another version (which would be version 5 no less) I need to give careful consideration to the overall size, possibly keeping the general concept but with a much simpler track plan. The loft has been surveyed and although there are challenges a layout is possible, pencils are being sharpened and set squares cleaned (no SCARM here mate). Lot of work to be done on the house so it will be a long time before any construction starts, so watch out for various schemes and ideas…..


Jim
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My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
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joshv8
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby joshv8 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:15 pm

Watching with eager anticipation Jim! And glad to hear the opportunity to continue at home.

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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby Ex-Pat » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:11 pm

luckymucklebackit wrote:Sorry but I just cannot let this one fade away, I gave a lot of consideration to joining a club but after discussion with Mrs Luckymucklebackit she actually encouraged me to look at building something in the loft - I think the idea of lots of weekend exhibition attendance had something to do with it, at least if I am in the loft she knows where I am!!


Great news Jim - does Mrs Luckymucklebackit know there is exceptionally good shopping available in Perth on 29th June?

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby luckymucklebackit » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:17 pm

Ex-Pat wrote:
luckymucklebackit wrote:Sorry but I just cannot let this one fade away, I gave a lot of consideration to joining a club but after discussion with Mrs Luckymucklebackit she actually encouraged me to look at building something in the loft - I think the idea of lots of weekend exhibition attendance had something to do with it, at least if I am in the loft she knows where I am!!


Great news Jim - does Mrs Luckymucklebackit know there is exceptionally good shopping available in Perth on 29th June?


:D One thing I have promised myself I will not be doing for the foreseeable future is buying anything, TBH a clearout is really needed to retire some of the older less used stuff. Although I did buy two second hand 16T mineral wagons at the Troon show, but those are for Allenshaw (that's my excuse)!

Jim
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My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
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Bufferstop
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:17 pm

Jim having gone down the plywood route when I started my current layout I can firmly say 12mm is OTT. 6mm with deep side frames from the same is bags strong enough. I used a piece of 12mm that was in my shed for the faces where the boards joined, if I hadn't had it I would just have reinforced those bits with some spare 6mm. I used some 18mm square strip to reinforce the joints screwed and glued. The end result was far more rigid than I ever achieved with chipboard and 2"x1".
Your loft sounds like our one was, I spent a couple of years banging my head on the insulation board sloping ceiling. until the last of the kids moved out when I immediately bagged some space from the odd shaped area which was referred to as the games room, but was really just a dumping ground for what wouldn't fit in their rooms. Having nice high baseboards, with storage underneath, being able to work standing, or perched on an "architect's" high chair with a footrail is pure luxury.
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TimberSurf
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby TimberSurf » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:14 pm

Great news you can start again, I miss version 4 already!
I am glad to say that past versions of my layout and a lot of research on the net, mean I am complacent I have all your lessons learned in place, the only problem I have, is that because of an eventual house move, I don't currently have a runable layout.
But all #5 lessons are all jolly good advice for all, even those not planning a larger layout!
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manna
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby manna » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:55 pm

G'Day Gents

Nice to see you back and planning a new railway, I had loft layouts, when I lived in the UK, but now it's all shed work, no climbing ladders, no bumping heads (except when I duck under the layout), could you no fit a decent shed in the garden, as you get older, it'll only get 'Harder'...............Only a thought :D

manna
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glencairn
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby glencairn » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:41 am

manna wrote:G'Day Gents
could you no fit a decent shed in the garden, as you get older, it'll only get 'Harder'...............Only a thought :D

manna


Then a garden layout ----------- ? :lol:

Jim. Glad to hear you have started planning a layout.

Glencairn
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luckymucklebackit
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby luckymucklebackit » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:08 am

Thanks everyone for the messages of support :)

The garden is very small so putting in a hut of a suitable size is not possible, it needs to be the loft or not at all! Been playing about with a few doodles on paper and what seems the most obvious plan is to go back to basics with the Mk1 Gateside and Northbridge plan and start from there, that layout was relatively simple yet still gave tremendous operating potential, I kept the original drawings (from around 1982) so I must dig them out and scan them. Everything is still a total guddle so task 1 will be finding the folder I kept them in!

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
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rb277170
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby rb277170 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:22 pm

Having first caught up with Gateside and Northbridge over on RMWeb , then seen further entries here, I am so happy that you’ve decided to continue on with the concept . You certainly did capture the look of a central Scottish Railway, tenement backscene , the look of the East end of Waverley , just to name 2 . I’m looking forward to seeing what you get up to. I was at Troon on the Saturday afternoon , I do wish I had met the guy that’s created such a superb layout. I’m not really a club person myself , so can understand you want to create something yourself . Should you need any help then I am fairly local (Erskine) .

Dad-1
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby Dad-1 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:57 pm

Hi Jim,

I'm liking the sounds drifting this way.
Don't be afraid of big, but keep it simple.
It looks like you've noted many lessons of design and skimping can lead to problems
but don't build a battleship, 6 mm ply should be fine and honeycomb reinforcing from
the same material can work.
My question is how easy is loft access ? I'm finding it more difficult on a ladder than I
did 5 years back ......... The next 5 concern me.

Anyway all power to your jigsaw !!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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TimberSurf
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Re: Gateside and Northbridge - a Concept I can not let Die!!!!

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:48 am

Dad-1 wrote:Hi Jim,

I'm liking the sounds drifting this way.
Don't be afraid of big, but keep it simple.
It looks like you've noted many lessons of design and skimping can lead to problems
but don't build a battleship, 6 mm ply should be fine and honeycomb reinforcing from
the same material can work.
My question is how easy is loft access ? I'm finding it more difficult on a ladder than I
did 5 years back ......... The next 5 concern me.

Anyway all power to your jigsaw !!

Geoff T.

I have to slightly disagree with Dad-1, having made my first two modules with 5.5mm ply, I would definitely use 9mm now. I understand that for a transportable layout that 5.5mm is the go to, with fine support, but for a permanent layout 9mm would be better, less support needed, less resonance (noisy trains) and easier to get screws in. Screwing things to the underside (like point motors) is difficult with the threads only 5mm into the wood.

I have two lofts and two ladders, an aluminium one (3 section slide) and a wood one (bi-fold). Both work fine, I am not a scaredy cat when it comes to heights, but the aluminium one is flimsy and scary even for me!
I would definitely recommend a wooden ladder as a more rigid solution (that feels safe and solid!)
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