Edgware GN,

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Ex-Pat
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Re: Edgware GN, Back to the Atlantic.

Postby Ex-Pat » Thu May 28, 2020 1:22 pm

They say it's hard to keep track of what day it is in these Covid times. However I know that today is definitely Confusedday! There I was, looking for the Atlantic. No, it must be a J1 then, what with the mention of "another J1".

Then I realised it's my favourite English class 0-6-0 - a J6 (and which I prefer to Atlantics in any event).

The tender top is very interesting - I can't find a photo showing that kind of water-filler, (and I'm assuming that the central mound is just a former on which to glue the coal?).

Certainly impressive.

Bigmet
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Re: Edgware GN, Back to the Atlantic.

Postby Bigmet » Thu May 28, 2020 3:06 pm

Ex-Pat wrote:...Then I realised it's my favourite English class 0-6-0 - a J6 (and which I prefer to Atlantics in any event).

The tender top is very interesting - I can't find a photo showing that kind of water-filler...

Really neat and workmanlike aren't they, and were very successful in service, handsome is as handsome does.

That rectangular upstand water filler arrangement. The Isinglass drawings make it clear that the pick up feed came up at the front end, and then there was a lifting flap at the rear for the fireman to fill the tank from a water crane. I think this may have been a Stirling period layout*, as Ivatt's new build tenders had the two separated, a larger circular cover forward over the pick up feed, and smaller round filler cover at the rear for use with a water crane. I have wondered if the combined arrangement was apt to release water if the pick up was performed at high speed and the filler cover not secured?

*The GNR and then LNER reused old tenders with religious fervour. The loco it was originally assigned to may have been superseded and scrapped, but if the tender was still serviceable it would be attached to another loco, might be a new build, or an older loco being downgraded to lesser duties, and it might then continue to 'shuffle on down' to yet lesser tasks as a water carrier, weedkiller tank, or water treatment sludge collector. That's why the GNR Stirling single was preserved without the tender it had at the end of its service: that tender still had service life in it and found use elsewhere; and also how quite late in the day a surviving Stirling tender of the right type was found in some backwater, and restored to go with old no 1 to the great benefit of its appearance.

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Re: Edgware GN, Back to the Atlantic.

Postby Ex-Pat » Thu May 28, 2020 4:58 pm

Bigmet wrote:
*The GNR and then LNER reused old tenders with religious fervour.


Before I posted I'd taken a look at the R.C.T.S. volume and also Yeadon's Tender Volume (I don't have the Yeadons J6 volume). The Yeadon's Tender Volume certainly supports your statement, but unfortunately the J6 class is not covered in detail.

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manna
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Re: Edgware GN, J6 revisited

Postby manna » Fri May 29, 2020 5:04 am

G'Day Gents

After a bit (not a lot) of research, I've come to the conclusion that GN tenders are a minefield for the unwary, and one that I've fallen into, worked out the the tender on the J6, should actually be on the J1 (isn't that lucky) But even then, not all of them, K's made a tender for the C1 Atlantic, and a couple of those tenders were fitted to J6's for a short time ( which is used behind my Atlantic ) although, I'm fairly sure I modeled my J6 on a picture (which now can't find) but if the worst comes to the worst, I'll build another tender for the J6.

I've printed a plan of the tender for a J1, the J6 is identical. This is what I based my build on.


manna
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EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

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Re: Edgware GN, J6 revisited

Postby Ex-Pat » Fri May 29, 2020 10:31 am

What I can't get my head around is where the coal actually goes. Does it drop into a void which is then covered up? That vacuum cylinder on your drawing is presumably between the frames.

There is no partition in front of the water filler to stop coal spilling into that area - most odd!

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manna
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Re: Edgware GN, J6 revisited

Postby manna » Fri May 29, 2020 9:59 pm

G'Day Ex-Pat

GN tenders did vary, some did have the divider, I think the idea was that the coal would drop into the middle slopping section, any that didn't would be shoveled down by the fireman, or it would move about by the movement of the tender.

manna
EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

Bigmet
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Re: Edgware GN, J6 revisited

Postby Bigmet » Sat May 30, 2020 10:05 am

manna wrote:GN tenders did vary, some did have the divider, I think the idea was that the coal would drop into the middle sloping section, any that didn't would be shovelled down by the fireman, or it would move about by the movement of the tender.

The Stirling and Ivatt tenders are made to a pattern from very early in the railway's development. On top of the tender frames, a cuboid water tank, the upper surface of which was a level deck with low sides on which the coal went in a fairly shallow layer. The low sides of the tanks would over time have side raves or rails added to increase coal capacity

The water tank wasn't completely cuboid, at the footplate end a recess was let into it, allowing coal to reach a shovelling plate. This recess might have a slope in it to the shovelling plate, but not necessarily; some were just a simple cuboid box. The fireman would get up on the tank deck when stopped, and 'bring coal forward'; not a problem when coal consumption was relatively small, and trains stopped at very regular intervals. Some small tender locos would work into the last decade of steam with this very basic equipment.

The 'big engine' development in the UK from the early 1900s brought about the change to the 'self trimming' bunker, constructed with inclined planes such that coal moved to the shovelling plate, by its mass and the movement action while the engine was underway. That was the theory at least, but firemen would be climbing into bunkers at need to get the coal forward right to the end of steam.

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manna
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Re: Edgware GN, J6 revisited

Postby manna » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:09 pm

G'day Gents

A couple of projects are on the workbench at the moment, the C12 (from a coupe of months ago) has been prodded and poked into life, it ran like a three legged pig, even after a new chassis, so I slowly worked out that the body (bought off of e-bay) was bent, by adjusting the chassis ( a simple Hornby 0-4-0) I now have a reasonable runner, still a bit more in the way of detailing the loco.

The BR class 205 "Thumper' has slowly moved on, the inside has been painted and glazing installed, as long as it's done before Christmas.

manna
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EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

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Re: Edgware GN,

Postby Ex-Pat » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:45 pm

I've always considered the C12 as the most graceful tank engine, and even obtained a Skinley drawing and some driving wheels at one stage before I dropped the idea of Grantham.

There's just something about 4-4-2 tanks that appeal to me, and yours does.

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manna
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Re: Edgware GN,

Postby manna » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:16 pm

G'Day Gents

Thank you Ex-Pat, I like C12's to. Now , an apology, The C12 above, is different than the one I described, 4511, is a body I built, the chassis, is from the original C12, and runs quite well after a new motor and Romford wheels. The other one is the one with a wonky body and Hornby chassis, but I'm still working on it.

On the pictures below, I've fitted the pick ups to the motor, it makes a neat unit, at the moment it needs a bit more weight, the brass wonky body supplies that, but still needs a bit of sorting out.

One will be used on 'Push Pull' working, the other on stock transfer.

manna
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manna
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Re: Edgware GN,

Postby manna » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:00 am

G'Day Gents

I have decided to go with the loco shed, and picking up a double slip for only $20, I'm modifying the goods yard to. Both to give access to the goods yard and a longer headshunt.
The redundant track has been removed and the replacement track laid where it is needed, You get the picture.

manna
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DSCF4943.JPG
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EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

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manna
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Re: Edgware GN,

Postby manna » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:15 am

G'day Gents

Tracks been laid, couple of days ago and had trains running over it, I need to remove some ballast to ease a kink, leading to the Goods shed all good (but it needs to warm up a bit).

The J5 that featured on page one, is being rebuilt, it has the same wheelbase as a J3-J4, and not a J5, the new brass J5 chassis is now with my son, it'll eventually find it's way to Australia, but in the meantime, I can live without a J5, the bodyshell of the old J5 has been carefully broken up, the boiler has been lowered and new chimney (J52) has been fitted, and a new cab is being built, It'll become a J4 (series 1081) see pics.Two tenders have been tried out, I'll probably go with the second tender for now.

manna
Attachments
DSCF4951.JPG
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DSCF4957.JPG
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EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

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Re: Edgware GN,

Postby luckymucklebackit » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:49 am

Layout is looking good Manna - looking forward to see the shed complete, should be impressive with your collection of locomotives.

Jim
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Re: Edgware GN,

Postby Ex-Pat » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:00 pm

manna wrote:G'day Gents



The J5 that featured on page one,

manna


Is that it on the far left at the buffer stops? I wasn't sure so I spent a most enjoyable time reading through every page again but didn't see (or managed to miss) any mention of it! - I see that on page 11 I suggested a new track plan might be called for - good job you didn't produce it, as recent developments would call for an amendment! (I'm still calling for it please!) - (after you've fixed that kink of course!)

Back to the J5 - seeing it in a state of de-construction conjures up visions of a busy Donware or Edgcaster works scenario with all your wonderful creations in various stages of build.

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manna
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Re: Edgware GN,

Postby manna » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:22 pm

Ex-Pat wrote:
manna wrote:G'day Gents



The J5 that featured on page one,

manna


Is that it on the far left at the buffer stops? I wasn't sure so I spent a most enjoyable time reading through every page again but didn't see (or managed to miss) any mention of it! - I see that on page 11 I suggested a new track plan might be called for - good job you didn't produce it, as recent developments would call for an amendment! (I'm still calling for it please!) - (after you've fixed that kink of course!)

Back to the J5 - seeing it in a state of de-construction conjures up visions of a busy Donware or Edgcaster works scenario with all your wonderful creations in various stages of build.

G'Day Gents

Sorry about that, I didn't check page 1, as I thought it was there, I've reinstated the picture. When the weather warms a couple of degrees, I'll get back out to the shed.

manna
EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs


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