N, Goodison Wood, updates page 11

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
bluechang
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N, Goodison Wood, updates page 11

Postby bluechang » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:10 pm

LAYOUT HAS CHANGED - GOTO THIS LINK (PAGE 7) FOR MORE DETAILS http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25168&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=90










As the subject says, I'm having to start my layout again. The OH has evicted me from the nice comfortable spare bedroom for a guest bed! What she has given me is a 3ft square area at the top of the stairs in which to restart my layout. So the location has posed a few problems in terms of designing a layout to fit, and also to allow me to sit and watch trains go on a run.

Baseboard

As I mentioned above, the actual landing space I have is approx 3ft square. What I have done it produced a baseboard that sits on top on the banister rail and overhangs the staircase by approx 17-19 inches. Some concerns were raised by Terrier on a thread in the baseboard construction section of this very forum, that the banister rail would not be strong enough to take the weight of the layout and that the whole layout could end up 12 feet below in a crumpled heap. I can assure you all that the banister rail is rock solid - it doesn't move an inch. I have designed the baseboard to incorporate a u shaped wood section which fits snugly over the banister rail and has sections cut out for compression clamps to hold it in place This is screwed into the underside of the baseboard. There will also be two legs secured to the baseboard next to the U shaped section and the edge closest the wall will also be secured to the top of the bookcase, which will provide a counterbalance to the entire structure as well as providing some storage space for railway related items.

In addition to this, the bookcase will also be fastened to the wall with a couple of steel 'L' shaped plates which you would normally use with the likes of wardrobes or large bookcases to stop them falling forward.

You may ask why not build the baseboard directly onto the wall? There are three reasons. The first being that I live in a rental property and I would need to get various letters from the landlord and letting agency to allow me to put such a large structure onto the wall. Secondly, with there being a large overhang, I intend on removing the layout into the spare guest room when nobody is in there, to work on the edge that is not very accessible. Thirdly, the walls are plasterboard and probably wont hold much weight.

The baseboard size is approx 54x29 inches which works out at 4ft 6inches x 2ft 5inches so a little narrower and a little shorter than the other board I had. The main difference is this one is lighter and I feel it is also stronger in construction.

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Layout design

I have used the phrase KISS - keep it simple stupid when designing my new layout. The old one was difficult to operate, so have deliberately gone back to a simple double loop layout with 4 lane station (2 lanes coming off the inner loop) and two passing sections at the back of the layout. When (and if) it gets finished, i want to be able to sit and watch trains go round without any intervention by me, but also have to option for some interaction should I want to. To begin with, with costs in mind, I am going to start out by laying the two loops, the two passing sections and the inner portion, and once that is sorted an running, i will then add on a siding section in the middle. One thing I will not be using this time around and that is TRACK PINS! I think i will use a dab of pva to hold it in place whilst other work is being done and the ballast will hold it fully in place. Also, I won't be making the mistake of cork matting - I will cut around the track to give a slight raised bed rather than covering the whole board as there isn' any point in doing the whole table.

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Operation methods

Again, due to cost constraints, I am planning on manual/mechanical operation of the turnouts. By this I mean, i am going to try a technique i spotted on this forum using piano wire and net curtain wire as a protective sheath. Train control will be provided by my current Bachmann DCC controller.

See this thread for some idea of the method of turnout control -http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25142&p=310119#p310119


Rolling Stock

My rolling stock falls into two sections. Those that have been dcc converted and those that haven't.

Converted
Class 66 DRS (Dapol) runs like a dog- needs attention
Class 150

Unconverted
Class 37/4 Bullidae Intercity Livery
Class 91 Grantham GNER Livery (with DVT)

Various Intercity liveried mk1 coaches
5x mk4 coaches (2x GNER, 3x Midland Mainline old style)
Various wagons - will picture them later on in the build


Hopefully, I will make some progress on this in the coming weeks. The main priorities are to confirm whether the mechanical operation of the turnouts will work and also to remove the track from the old baseboard, paying particular attention to preserving as much as I can. Obviously there will be bits I will need to replace, but I want to keep that down to as little as possible.


I do apologise if I have rambled on a little in this first post. Hopefully everything I have written makes sense, and any comments or criticism is welcome.

Than ks for looking.
Last edited by bluechang on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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beerandpies
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby beerandpies » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:44 pm

Will be interested to see how you get on with manual control of the points using wire. The wife has expressed interest in getting the room my railway sits in back in to use as a guest bedroom which has gotten me round to thinking about replacing Hollycroft with a modular layout on a set of shelves. I was toying with the same point control method for that.
cheers, Mark.
Scragg End

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Si_Donal
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby Si_Donal » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:40 am

Hi Bluechang,

I'm fascinated by the ingenuity in modelling at the top of the stairs! Your basebords look like they'll survive a bomb!

I know we've discussed wire in tube operation of points. I would suggest that you consider the following:

1. Those red lines are where I would suggest using the wire in the groove method. This would mean that you'd have to lay the track onto cork but not over the whole board, just under the rails and buildings. You should start laying track from the back of the layout.

2. Those two points at the edge of the layout are your most difficult prospects. This is because they are at right angles to the baseboard edge. This is where the wire in the tube method would be best used. You'll use the tube to turn the wire in a gentle 90 degree curve to bring the handle to the front of the board. You'd have to run these wires under the baseboard because otherwise they'll foul the other operating wires. You will need to put the cables into place before you nail down the baseboard top or else the cable will foul the baseboard supports too!

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I know it isn't going to be easy but you are obviously a compentent carpenter - they beat my baseboards easily! I do have a question though, are the two points at the rear of the layout necessary? ( I put an orange splodge on them). Unless I am missing something, they don't add any value to the operation. You might be better with the a dead end siding to drive your Class 150 DMU into then the rear would be free to continue running trains on.
Si

Leisure Time = those moments between the lists of jobs that a wife gives you to do.

Visit my layout thread at: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=24781

bluechang
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby bluechang » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:18 am

beerandpies - I'm hoping the manual control of the points work as well, as I really can't afford to pay out for the 12 motors and all the other bits for this layout, plus any extras should i add them on at a later date. If it works, I will put details of how I did it on here for you if you want? It wont be for a while though as i have a few bits to do on this baseboardand recovering the track off the old boards before i can start on anything.

Si_Donal - Thanks for the kind words. I don't think I would stand on them to test their strength, not least because there is a 12 foot drop the other side of the banister rail! This baseboard has been designed a lot better than the last one. the first one had 70x36mm or something legs, 70x18mm fascia boards, 34x34mm cross beams and 9mm top deck, which meant it was a strong as an ox (I could sit on it - 14st - and it didn't budge an inch) but it was so so very heavy (needed 2 poeople to physically move the thing.)

The two turnouts at the top are necessary to allow easy navigation - without having to reverse a train back up the crossing at the front in between the two passing sections, I would need the ones at the back to transfer train from inner to outer and outer to inner rails. Obviously, their exact location on the layout could be moved for operational interests, however I feel having the turnouts at the station entrance would be better and would certainly make the model feel like a real railway.

The orientation of the layout is also in question as well - should i have the station area at the front of the layout, or at the rear of the layout? There is also a turnout missing on that diagram. i deliberately left it out to ensure i didn't get myself confused, however, it just means I may forget to put it in. The inner passing loop at the bottom of the layout will have a turnout leading off into the middle of the layout, with a few siding areas - not decided what they will be or for as yet - maybe holding area or something. Any suggestions would be grateful.

I am tempted to use the tube and wire method for all turnouts, mainly because doing it that way would be best suited for being hidden and would also avoid any possibility of the wire fouling should it be in a groove. I am also going to direct all the wires to a dedicated turnout operation board, which will require some flexibility as it is going to be attached near to the bookcase directly onto the sub fram I agree on the location of the routing of the wires to the turnouts, and will probably get tthe holes drilled for them in the next few days or so. Just need to finish off the counterbalance closest to the wall and work out an easy method for disconnecting the board from the bookcase.

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THE CHIEF
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby THE CHIEF » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:56 pm

Hi mate, welcome back! Good luck with the new layout, especialy the point work. If you need the "odd bit" of track let me know as i have piles of set track laying about, quite abit is as new :)

bluechang
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby bluechang » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:22 pm

THE CHIEF wrote:Hi mate, welcome back! Good luck with the new layout, especialy the point work. If you need the "odd bit" of track let me know as i have piles of set track laying about, quite abit is as new :)


hello again! - will let you know if I get stuck. You started a thread up on your layout yet?

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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby THE CHIEF » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:33 am

Not yet, tried a test photo in off topic to see if I can link pictures up. Should start one soon though...

bluechang
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby bluechang » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:18 pm

Right, the wheels are in motion for the mechanical control of the turnouts. I have ordered 15 metres of the net curtain wire from ebay (£6.25 delivered), which may or may not come with eyes but I'm not entirely sure, not that it really makes any difference to my plans anyway. I have also purchased some green plastic coated garden wire (50metre reel) from Rapid Hardware for £2.50 which, at 1.2mm diameter inclusive of the plastic, is a nice snug fit in the tie bar hole of my N gauge turnouts. At a quick glance, the wire holds its shape very well when bent to a 90 degree angle (so vertical , similar to point motor operation), but I want to see how it fares with an angled hole through the board and to see what result i get from that.

Problems to overcome

- Need to figure out a way to stop the cable from being pulled too much, which would cause damage to the tie bar of the turnout, possibly pull the cable from its fixings- May need to obtain a cold heat glue gun or similar and add a dollop of glue just after the wire exits the sheath to enter the turnout hole, to stop it from being pulled to harshly. the same will also need doing at the end which enters into the turnout control panel.

- Need to come up with a way of securing the wire in the turnout tie hole to stop it coming loose/being pulled from the hole should the above (point 1) not hold out.

- I also need to consider whether the sheaths need gluing to the underside, rather than just being left loose as it may affect the operation of the turnout.

- I could also do with figuring out a way of identifying which way the point is set on the control panel - maybe using leds and a switch connected somehow to the wire pull operation? The maximum movement of the wire is approx 5 mm so not sure even if that amount of movement could be tied into an on-off-on switch.

These problems are only a few that have come to mind in the last few hours. The top two are definitely going to be needing looking into and ensuring that they work faultlessly before going onto ballasting any track. The identification of turnout direction is something that can be dealt with at a later date i think.

if this idea comes off, I will be extremely happy as it will have only cost £10 to mechanically operate all 12 points on my layout, compared to over £70 just for the point motors. Like I said further up, if it works, I'l post some photos of how I've done it if anyone is interested.

bluechang
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby bluechang » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:34 pm

Hello all. First of all, a happy new Year to all NRMer's.

i have been working on my baseboard this morning, in anticipation of the net curtain wire arriving in the next few days. I have designed and constructed a bracket that will be screwed to the top of the bookcase and onto the underside of the baseboard to provide further stability to the layout. I have cut two lengths of 34x18mm timber - one of which has two 45 degree angles cut at each end and the other has to 90 degree cuts. The 45 degree cuts allow for the board to be drop into place and land on the bracket at the correct angle. the 90 degree cut allows for two sliding bolts to be fitted to lock the board into place. I will also be adding 2 hook and eyes as well for added peace of mind, considering I have a fair overhang over a large drop.

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i will post a picture of it all detached once the glue thats hold the upper part of the bracket to the baseboard has dried through. i also need to produce 2 additional triangle brackets to allow me to add a couple of screws to the joint. I will probably do this tomorrow.

I have this morning, completed the recovery of all the track off my old baseboard with only one piece damaged, which I will replace in the coming weeks. I have also managed to recover all of the wired fishplates in what looks to be working order. I've decided I'm going to try soldering all of the connections to one main bus, rather than doing what i did last time around as it made it rather difficult to trouble shoot when something went wrong. All I have to do now is finish cleaning the removed, ballasted track. 6 pieces left to do, which will be done tonight if there isn't anything on tv.


i have a rough idea of how the net curtain wire will be routed around the board to the points. As the orientation of the design has not been decided, the location of the exit point/control box could change.

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if anyone can see any issues with the above turnout wire routing design please let me know so I can look into them - In any case, i will be posting a finalised design, including any sidings in the middle of the layout later on this evening, once I've had chance to work on it.
Last edited by bluechang on Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bluechang
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby bluechang » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:48 pm

As i mentioned before, i have gone through what track I already have and have added sidings onto the layout. I will have to buy the odd couple of pieces (inc the one that was originally damaged) to complete the layout, but that will be bought over the coming weeks (again, dependent on experimenting with the mechanical turnout control

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As you may have noticed, the layout has been turned 180 degrees so that the station is at the front of the layout. I also think it will make running the various cabling for the point mechanisms easier as originally, the vast majority of turnouts were at the front.

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And the turnout wiring diagram I hope to follow (kind of). The main thing is I need to ensure the netcurtain wire follows a steady curve around corners otherwise it could catch the wire in the tube.

I have also been thinking about the overhang - I hope to have enough timber to have a 6-10 inch catch-all around the edges that matter. This will also form the basis for some form of tunnel at the top left of the layout. I am also thinking of a raised urban area, but thats dependent on cash flow, otherwise i will consider doing a grassy hill with maybe a castle on the top?

Can anybody recommend a device that I can use to get consistent 45 degree drill holes?

Any thoughts, hints, tips, criticisms, or insults :D are welcome!

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THE CHIEF
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby THE CHIEF » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:21 pm

Hi mate, for holes just cut a piece 2x2 into a 45 digree wedge and fix a small piece of aluminium tracking to the top to guild the drill bit. Sounds a bit stig of the dump but it works for me.

bluechang
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby bluechang » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:39 pm

Hey all.

No real progress due to this

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I'm assuming that the net curtain wire is stuck in the postal system which has probably ground to a halt with the amount of snow we are getting.

I have cut most of the top skin ready from gluing and screwing once the aforementioned curtain wire has arrived and the idea tested out on a scrap piece of timber. Since i can go no further until the wire has arrived, i have rough laid the track out on the board to gauge what it will look like when i am ready to start laying track and to see whether I am satisfied with the layout in general. its safe to say that I am.

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There are a few pieces missing, which are going to be ordered from Hattons later this evening, when i get a chance to sit down and think!

I am thinking that the edging I need to do on the overhang needs to be less than 10-12 inches, mainly due to the weight. having felt how heavy the top skin is, I wouldn't feel comfortable adding further weight onto that end. I am now thinking of a barrier no higher than 4-6 inches high. Which means that the idea I had in the post further up about a tunnel in that corner with castle on top is a no go really. I am leaning towards a cutting through a rocky patch just after the turnout leading into the inner two platforms. that way I can look to reduce weight over that area.

Whilst I am sat here waiting for essential bits to arrival, i think I'm going to teach myself how to use a soldering iron, as I am going to solder the wired droppers to a main bus, as I mentioned in a post further up. i bought one some months ago, but never began using it. if anyone wantsa to point me in the direction of a website, by all means do so :)

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poliss
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby poliss » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:44 pm

Teleman has made a video on Youtube showing how to solder droppers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1YkdrYlGbM

bluechang
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby bluechang » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:07 pm

poliss wrote:Teleman has made a video on Youtube showing how to solder droppers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1YkdrYlGbM


Thanks for the link poliss, I have had a quick look at it before, and have also found an idiots guide to soldering on the 'instructibles' website, so that should give me an insight on how to solder.

I think I need to make an attachment for my workbench to convert it into a temporary table for working at, as I haven't got any free table top space near to my layout.

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poliss
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Re: New Start, New Location - Many problems Ahead - What Fun

Postby poliss » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:17 pm

There's also a great video by Reality Reduced on Blip TV which discusses soldering stations, irons, heatshrink tubing etc. Click on episode #14. You might want to skip the first 4 mins as he does general soldering there. http://realityreduced.blip.tv/


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