Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
Harringay Dave
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Harringay Dave » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:47 pm

Much to enjoy since my last whirl around NRM - the black and white shot of the Jinty is *surely* real - it’s outstanding.

Your post from June 30th where you outline some little tweaks is most inspiring - as an aspiring modeller still pretty new to the game, it gets the juices flowing to see such attention to detail - sure, I might have thought of adding a bit of broken guttering, and maybe even staining the roof... but would I have thought of making the weeds longer? Not sure I’d ever have connected those dots!

Really good to see it get even better - yours is one of the first threads I look out for when I make my sporadic visits.

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:44 am

Thanks for your kind comments Dave

I’ve recently been working on the jinties little cousin. A Johnson 1f from Bachmann with a brassmasters easychas and details

Below are a few images of the finished loco.

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The fireman (modelu) takes a breather!

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:22 pm

Although no one has said anything I've never been that happy with the back scenes on Brettell Road. Back scenes are a bit of a quandary as you dont want them to be naff but then you dont really want the viewers of a layout to notice them either. They kind of need to be there but not there at the same time. Initially I used a combination of brush painting and car aerosols to do them but with hindsight and a sprinkling of self reflection I probably didn't put in the time and effort I should have. Below is the first incarnation.
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Above is my revised version.  I downloaded some textures from scalescenes and set to work on photoshop.  I could have rendered my own textures but given what scalescenes charge it really not worth anyones time to do this in my opinion.   Below are some more images before and after. 
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Below are a few images of hw it all looks in the intended light. 
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Dublo
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Dublo » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:41 pm

Hi Jim
Great model making, and great photography. I particularly like the final black and white shot. An inspiration to us all.

BuffyMcBuffer
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby BuffyMcBuffer » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:02 am

Nice touches! Really adds depth to the scene

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:58 pm

I'll admit I wasn't planning on the back scene post being a 2 parter but thanks to some helpful feedback I've had another look at what I did before. Changes are to add detail to the windows and make them more yellow/darker. Ive taken some magenta out of the prints and added some blur to various buildings to knock them back a little and give a better sense of depth. Ive also added a few extra details. Ive also left the roofs gloss while the rest of the prints are matt in an attempt to emphasise the wet effect I'm after. You can judge for yourselves the results below.

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:36 pm

A while ago I modified a Cambrian Turbot kit with a Rumney Models bogie bolster E underframe. ( http://www.p4newstreet.com/going-about-it-all-backwards.html ). Ive finally got around to doing the others too. Here they are on a visit to Brettell Road.

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:38 pm

As I've mentioned in the past I am trying to not add to the wagon roster for Brettell Road, rather just trying to finish off the un-started and partially started kits I already have. Although one or 2 new ones have snuck in to the to-do pile somehow. Heres the latest to find their way off my workbench.

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2 such culprits - a Diagram 1828 van from the Cambrian kit and a Bachmann 7 plank wagon. The 7 plank wagon was introduced a few Warley's ago as the clubs special wagon. Being a Brierley Hill wagon and. according to the info that comes with it, based at Moor lane Wharf (where Brettell Road is very loosely based), it seemed rude not to.

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3 Tunnys from the old Colin Ashby Kits with Parkside underframes. I uses some Rumney Models Grampus bits to add the steps and door bangers. The furthest one (in green) is an older model that i built years ago for New Street which I upgraded at the same time.

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LMS built (for the LNER) ARM E wagon from the Cambrian Salmon bogies and half of the floor. The rest is plastic strip with some Rumney Models and Colin Criag detailing bits thrown in.

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A couple of steel wagons. Bogie bolster E from Lima, Rumney and Cambrian. Made sense to finish this off at the same time as the Turbots (see the New Street workbench). The Plate is from Parkside.
Finally, below, is the completed engineers train.

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Dad-1
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Dad-1 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Superb Jim,

Can't say much more ..... I do look forward to your 'new' work postings.
I could so easily loose an evening just going back through this thread !

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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manna
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby manna » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:14 pm

G'Day Gents

Some beautiful work, puts me to shame :D

manna
EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

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TimberSurf
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:35 pm

manna wrote:G'Day Gents

Some beautiful work, puts me to shame :D

manna


Puts us all to shame, but very inspiring :)
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Mountain
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Mountain » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:14 pm

Very nice. I like the overgrown line which heads under the bridge. It gives a very nice scenic touch without using too much space.

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:37 pm

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Ok, it seems a little odd to start a post on wagonloads with a couple of vans but they do give away subtle signs that they are actually earning money and not just trundling around.  Chalk markings and labels are the give-away here.  The chalk markings are done with a sharp chinagraph pencil which allows you to smudge them and rub them out. Much as could be found on the real thing. The labels are from Hollar Models and can be distressed with a scalpel or fibreglass brush before applying. 

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The easiest loads are the loose ones such as coal, ore, ballast etc. This is real coal glued to a foam former (the dark foam in RTR loco packing is ideal). Remember to weather the inside of the wagon first though. 

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One loose load I struggled a little with was coke. In the end I used larger lumps of coal but when set sprayed it with gunmetal to give the dull look coke has. 

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Sheeted loads tend to come in 2 forms. Above the load is sheeted as a stand alone item.  This was a cheap load i found on ebay. 

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The second form is that the load is added to the wagon and then the load and the wagon itself is sheeted over. These are more cheap loads from Ebay which were quite crude. The sheeting is black latex cut from a surgical glove. 

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Sometimes the load is just open to the elements. This is a drawbar converter from Langley Models.

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Finally, sometimes the load is a wagon itself. An RT Models molten slag wagon loaded onto a Lowmac and ARM-E

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:58 pm

For those in the Midlands, Brettell Road is out this Saturday at the Cradley Heath exhibition

Cradley Heath Community Centre
Reddal Hill Road
Cradley Heath
West Midlands
B64 5JG
Car Park Post Code: B64 5JY

Admission:
Adult: £5.00
Child (Age 4-14): £2.50
Child (Under 4): Free
Family (2 Adults + up to 2 Children): £11.00
No Unaccompanied Children Please

Please say hi if you are going

Jim

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:06 pm

I've mentioned before that Brettell road is a 'what if' layout and that extends to the stock as well. So what if the NBL class 21s were trialed in the Midlands? It's not a huge leap to make from reality really and its reported that they did appear on the Condor's occasionally (anyone got any pictures of this?). I've always had a passing interest in the Hornby class 29 as its melancholy look seemed to stand out from the other diesels in their catalogue as a kid. I never had one though so why not get one now? I prefer the original look of the class 21 to the re-engined class 29 so that's the plan. The Hornby model has bits of both. (I know about the upcoming Dapol model but I figured going this way would be more fun!)

The Prototype

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©53A models of Hull Collection, used with kind permission.

Although the class 21 and class 22 became something of an irrelevance in the history of British locomotives their story does hold a bit of interest. NBL could have been said to be at least as experienced in British loco production as anyone else at the time with their LMS commissioned prototype 10800 and the class 16s which shared a strong resemblance. Both were powered by Paxman engines and both were somewhat problematic.
When it came to type 2 units (or type B at the time) they abandoned the Paxman power unit turning to their own built MAN units, built under licence from Germany.It's not clear if NBL actually had any real experience in building these engines at the time and to say they were somewhat disastrous wouldn't be far from the truth. NBL would return to Paxman to repower some of the class 21s and they would be class 29. Truth is they were little better. Poor cooling and badly laid out equipment only made matters worse for the class.

Where they do hold an interest is in that the class 21's were diesel electric while the class 22's were diesel hydraulic. If they hadn't have been so problematic then a reasonable comparison of the 2 propulsion types would have resulted. This was the only opportunity for main line locos in the UK to be so directly compared. The 2 classes look very similar with the class 21s being just a smidge under 5 feet longer and at least to my eye, looking more 'designed'

D6109 the odd one out.
D6109 became the odd one out of the true class 21s having received most of the body modifications for conversion to a class 29 but not the Paxman engine (reportedly down to problems discovered in the frames). So D6109 became the only class 21 to get a headcode box.&nbsp; Interestingly there was one class 29 that didn't but got all the other modifications.

The Model as it comes.
Being reasonably unfamiliar with the real thing some time has been spent comparing the model to pictures of the real loco and I've drawn up a (quite long) list of things I think are off.
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A - I think the peak of the roof is wrong - it looks flatter on the real locos. Also the rib behind it doesn't seem as prominent as it is on the model.
B - The water fillers seem the wrong shape and are missing from one side completely/ the handrail next to it is too long.
C - The bodyside steps seem a bit too round and are too shallow.
D - Ignoring the moulded fan/etch thing for a moment. the whole panel with the radiator fan on is in the wrong place. It should like up with the bodyside grills.
E - There's a lot of rivet detail on the model. It's too heavy and I am not convinced it's all really there on the prototype.
F - As with all Hornby diesels from this era there are moulded on paint guidelines.
G - I think the lower faring tucks under the loco more than it does on the model.
H - Wheels are too small and should be spoked not solid.
I - Central part of the lower bodyside faring looks a lot deeper than the prototype. It looks more like a class 31! I wonder if this was deliberate to compensate for the body being mounted too high as was the norm for Hornby models of the time?
J - Battery box detail is kind of suggested at best.
K - Bodyside door windows aren't deep enough - they should line up with the bottom of the other bodyside windows. The lower bodyside rib goes across the door on the model - it doesn't on the real loco.
L - Bodyside grills arent deep enough, they too should line up with the bottom of the bodyside windows.
M - Bogies look a bit filled in to me. Brake shoes don't line up with the wheels (again common with Hornby diesels from the era.)
N - Steps under the doors are a bit freelance.
O - Bufferbeams blend into the lower bodyside - there's a distinctive shape to these visible on the prototype.
P - Buffers and bufferbeam are too high.
Q - lower cab front isn't deep enough
R - Horn covers are a bit basic
S - Cab end lights are very basic too! the upper ones are too near the cab edges.
T - More moulded on paint lines. the lines for the doors stand out. they should be grooves.
U - Headcode box - not on a class 21 (except D6109 as mentioned above.
V - Its well-known that the cab windows are not wide enough. I don't think they are right vertically either. The prototype seems a pretty even height all the way along. Hornby's are taller in the middle.
In addition the exhaust port is the wrong shape and somewhat freelance.

So, to work
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Side views compared. Woking down from the roof I've replaced the exhaust and flattened the cabs a bit.&nbsp; The radiator grill was cut out as an offset before turning it around and sticking it back in so that it now lines up.
The bodyside steps have been drilled out and the handhold replaced (not really worth the effort with hindsight) and the bottom of the grill frames carved off to be replaced with microstrip. The bottom faring has been reduced (the white strip is where I took a bit too much off).
Power wise the model uses a Bachmann class 25 chassis with the bogie centers spaced out by about a mm each end. I kept the original Bachmann brakes and overlaid the Hornby sideframes after opening them up a bit. The original battery box was shortened and mounted in a new plasticard frame.
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The cab fronts have been detailed with Extreme Etches window frames and headcode disks. The bottom of the can being extended and the original detail filed off. I scored the inside of the tumblehome and bent it in further to match the prototype pictures. The bufferbeams being cut off first and rebuilt.Hopefully a bit warmer weather and i can get it painted.


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