Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:24 pm

Midland brake van evolution - a visual guide.

One thing the Midland did well was use standardised bits and adapted them as they went along. This is quite noticeable in their signal boxes but also in their brake vans and, visually at least, the evolution is pretty obvious and logical.  So from left to right...

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Starting with the early midland 10 ton van.  This was very much of its time and featured 3ft 6in wheels with a veranda at one end only. The open platform thats so familiar to the idea of a brake van wasn't something that the Midland really went with and only one lot (D2096) of 4 vehicles would feature this in the future.  The rest of standard Midland brake vans would all feature a full length roof.

The later 20 ton van was built to diagram 1659 between 1924 and 1927 and featured a longer 12 ft wheelbase with 3ft wheels and a cabin that was 13ft 4in inside. This would become the standard size cabin for the rest of the midland vans that followed The similarities between the 2 type shown are pretty obvious with vertical planking and basically the same end panels.

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Next came diagram 1657 (the diagram numbers don't seem to follow in a chronological order) built between 1927 and 1931.  The obvious change was the duckets on the side.  The outer ends also evolved to feature a smaller opening and flush planking but still with the same offset central vertical spar.

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From diagram 1657 to diagram 1940 built in 1933/34.  Virtually identical except for an increase in wheelbase of 14ft which resulted in a visually less nicely proportioned vehicle. It's suggested that the increase was an attempt to improve stability at higher speeds.

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On to diagram 1890 also built in 1933/34.  Still 20 tons but with another wheelbase increase to 16ft and an increase on overall length from 20ft to 24ft. The cabin size remained the same but there was a change from vertical to horizontal planking. Note the end central spar now really is central!

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Finally diagram 2036.  Basically the same as before but with the door opening moved to the far end.  The planking on the ends is now gone as is the central spar as well as the upper part of the opening following the roof line. There were a few slightly different variants of this design such as diagram 2068 (the last being built in 1950) which featured a deeper ballast box between the wheels. Some of this last batch were also fitted although many of the other types were through piped at times in their lives.

Dad-1
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Dad-1 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:50 pm

Talking about making work for yourself !
Head scratching "Which version should I use on this (or that) train"

Super collection of quality models Jim.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:25 pm

Bit of a mixed bag this post, starting with;

A kind gift.

My friend Tom contacted me to say he had an old Millholme models kit for an LMS 30t bogie bolster and did I want it?  Of course it would be rude not too!

The kit represents, as best as I can tell, a diagram 1682 45 ft bogie bolster. These were a continuation of a Midland design with the only obvious difference being that the earlier ones had handbrake wheels rather than compound levers. The sides and solebars were, nicely, cast in one piece and being as old kit the bufferbeam and ends where missing. The trussing was also cast in whitemetal and was somewhat optimistic as its a long piece in a not very strong and somewhat bendy material.

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So to work I replaced all the trussing with 1mm L section brass from Eileens.  The brake lever castings were OK and they are both mounted at one end. It appears that only the bogie at this end is braked at all.

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The bogies are ratio ones and I ditched the swivelling plate idea as supplied preferring to pack them out and mount them with a screw.  The bufferbeams were from my scrap kit parts box and the extra rivet detail from Archers transfers. The buffers were the ones supplied in the kit.
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Lampost conundrum

My plan to extend Brettell Road includes completing the road currently on the left of the layout as well as adding a new road.  Digging around looking at local pictures in the late 50s the lamposts seem to be mostly the concrete cast type.  Theres a couple of options for these. Hornby Scaledale none working ones and woodland scenics working type.  I immediately discounted the latter as they are far too chunky and just look awful.

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Not that the Hornby ones look any better.  Im not sure why they bothered to produce these as they are basically crude lumps of resin and they don't even provide a foot for modellers to mount them.  The idea of fitting a surface mount LED and hiding the wires on the none viewing side went out of the window!  I must be able to do something better than this surely? Especially as, at most I will only need 5 of them.
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So with some K&S metal section (1.5mm square for the top and 2.4mm Hex for the main trunk) I made this.
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The base was blended into the main columns and sprayed with Plasticote suede. I also very lighty dusted some grey primer and blank over it to give a more concretey colouring. Below is how it looks in position.
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[img]Baby%20Grampus[/img]

Flicking through Simon Bendall's bookazine 'Modelling British Railways - Engineers wagons' I was taken by a wagon I'd not come across before. The GWR designed ling.  A 14 ton open wagon that looks like a baby grampus. In the bookazine, Hywel Thomas built one by cutting down a Chivers Tunney but I decided another route would be to stretch a Cambrian starfish instead.
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So 2 starfish kits were found and a lot of cutting ensued. The doors on a Ling are shorter than a Starfish so each door had a section cut from the middle with new strapping from microstrip. Buffers are from Lanarkshire models, W irons from Bill Bedford, door bangers and steps from Rumney Models and the test of the underframe from plastic section and the spares box.
Image

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Above is the reason i referred to this wagon as a baby grampus.  Along side one it's considerably smaller.  Comparisons between the shortened doors and the starfish originals can also be seen.

Dad-1
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:02 pm

Hi Jim,

I must be supplier-blind, you come up with places that I'd never heard of, or to go looking
for parts. Those brass end steps a good example. The plastic ones included with the Parkside
'Beetle' vans are so vulnerable you just know they'll get snapped off.

Now I see a source !! I do enjoy seeing what you've achieved with the various builds and trying
to pick up tips. More super wagons there.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:35 pm

Thanks Geoff

I think it’s more that the finescale type supplies tend to focus on the specialist shows so people don’t really come across them all that often.

Jim

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TimberSurf
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby TimberSurf » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:38 pm

You simply "stretched" a wagon! lol, talk about understatement! Terrific work as usual!

I have always had a hankering to make the traditional BR fluorescent Tee lamps and have them lit. There is one supplier, but theirs is rather thick and dumpy!
To that end, I designed one in 3D and printed in clear resin, it looks good, but the top half does not quite fit the lower snugly, needs some tweaking, but I have been distracted with so many other 3D designs since, I have yet to go back to it! You have given me an idea, for the concrete sodium version, I could design and print in 3D, but add a minute groove down each side to glue in some wire, that could be "filled" after to disguise them!
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:04 am

For the traditional ones on new street I didn’t need them to work (as the layout is set in the day.

See https://www.p4newstreet.com/let-there-be-lights.html

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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:32 pm

Thanks Jim, they look stunning and it's a great article, may well pinch the 2mm plastic tube idea!
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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:22 pm

The plan for New Street has always been to feature a selection of engineers trains.  The ones I have had in mind are a rake of loaded mainly 4 wheeled hoppers, a rake of loaded bogie hoppers, a rake of loaded grampus style wagons (partially fitted), a rake of empty salmons and a mixed rake of unfitted oddities(also empty).  All of these trains have been started to a degree and most of them many years ago.   However I had an urge to get at lease one of these trains finished off and it was the bogie ballast hoppers that appealed the most.

These have been pretty much done for years with most just needing the hand wheels and safety screens finishing off.

Image
The oldest model is an old Cambrian kit for a Sealion.  Because this model does look a little different to all the others it will actually form part of the 4 wheel rake so that it doesn't stand out.

Image
Next up a couple of Lima Sealions.  An excellent model for its time let down only by the odd bogies. Ive replaced them with Cambrian ones.

Image
The Lima tooling went to Hornby and rather than just stick it in a 'railroad' range box they did actually do some decent upgrades to this model.  Mainly the bogies but also adding the safety screens.  The rest is as Lima designed it with the exception of Hornby moved the end handrails from the top of the platforms to the buffer beams and replaced the inner original handrails (which were plastic) with better wire ones.

Image
The above image serves to show the changes made. The hand wheels have been replaced with Stenson Models etched ones and the safety screen, while a commendable effort, wasn't fine enough in my eyes. I've used cut down etches from Extreme etches intended for the class 56 bodyside grills. I also replaced the buffer heads with some  from MJT.  The livery Hornby applied to these seem to be a hybrid of the earlier light grey version applied in the later dark grey style. I couldn't find any like this so the lower black band was added.

Image

Image
Also from Hornby the later welded Seacow.  Again the screens were replaced.  These too had the lighter grey livery so they were resprayed into the darker grey.

Image
Bachmann have also done a Sealion and theres not a lot wrong with it as it comes. I still changes the screens and hand wheels for consistency throughout the rake.

Image
The super easy conversion to a lima Sealion is to remove the vacuum cylinders to turn it into a Seacow. Lima did brand some of their RTR models Seacow but they retained the vacuum gear.

Image
A more involved conversion is to stretch the lima model to produce the larger 50ton Whale. These were started way before the Cambrian Kit appeared although they do now ride on their bogies. Hand wheels are again from Stenson models.

Image
Although a modest train for New Street its still virtually as long as Brettell Road!

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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:51 pm

It seems that the good folk of Brierley Hill need to rely on buses for a while...
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...Brettell Road is currently somewhat disrupted!    Work progressing on the plan to double track the layout.   One of the advantages of designing a layout on a computer and having a friendly laser cutting chap is you can design bits to replace things you really should have thought more about the first time!

Ive talked before about the regret at not making the layout a double track and I've also touched on using MDF as a trackbed which turned out to be a tad too unstable. The main lines have been replaced with 6mm ply and a hole cut for it to sit in.  Pictures of Brettell Lane in the period show some encroachment of flat bottom trackwork but in the form of pointwork. Further down the line, north of Dudley the Midland lines were also flat bottom in the period I am modelling and since Brettell road has always been more Midland anyway I decided to go with flat bottom trackwork for the plain lines.  Specifically mills clips courtesy of Colin Craig. (the actual clips will be added after testing.

Image

Chains of slips under bridges all seem oddly familiar for some reason!  Like my other model nothing in this one is straight either! The track on the left isn’t fixed at this end yet

Thanks to Colin and Tim for their assistance in supplying bits.

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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby DonB » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:38 pm

Great work as always, Jim.

Ah. Track remodelling.
That explains the rake of ballast hoppers in the previous post...

"...things that you really should have thought more about first time!"


It's kind of reassuring to know that even the best of us occasionally have lapses in their forward planning; I myself am currently in the midst of rectifying a huge c*ck-up (more of an omission) on my layout...
Don

My Layout Thread: viewtopic.php?t=14899

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Mountain
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Mountain » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:12 pm

Jim S-W wrote:The plan for New Street has always been to feature a selection of engineers trains.  The ones I have had in mind are a rake of loaded mainly 4 wheeled hoppers, a rake of loaded bogie hoppers, a rake of loaded grampus style wagons (partially fitted), a rake of empty salmons and a mixed rake of unfitted oddities(also empty).  All of these trains have been started to a degree and most of them many years ago.   However I had an urge to get at lease one of these trains finished off and it was the bogie ballast hoppers that appealed the most.

These have been pretty much done for years with most just needing the hand wheels and safety screens finishing off.

Image
The oldest model is an old Cambrian kit for a Sealion.  Because this model does look a little different to all the others it will actually form part of the 4 wheel rake so that it doesn't stand out.

Image
Next up a couple of Lima Sealions.  An excellent model for its time let down only by the odd bogies. Ive replaced them with Cambrian ones.

Image
The Lima tooling went to Hornby and rather than just stick it in a 'railroad' range box they did actually do some decent upgrades to this model.  Mainly the bogies but also adding the safety screens.  The rest is as Lima designed it with the exception of Hornby moved the end handrails from the top of the platforms to the buffer beams and replaced the inner original handrails (which were plastic) with better wire ones.

Image
The above image serves to show the changes made. The hand wheels have been replaced with Stenson Models etched ones and the safety screen, while a commendable effort, wasn't fine enough in my eyes. I've used cut down etches from Extreme etches intended for the class 56 bodyside grills. I also replaced the buffer heads with some  from MJT.  The livery Hornby applied to these seem to be a hybrid of the earlier light grey version applied in the later dark grey style. I couldn't find any like this so the lower black band was added.

Image

Image
Also from Hornby the later welded Seacow.  Again the screens were replaced.  These too had the lighter grey livery so they were resprayed into the darker grey.

Image
Bachmann have also done a Sealion and theres not a lot wrong with it as it comes. I still changes the screens and hand wheels for consistency throughout the rake.

Image
The super easy conversion to a lima Sealion is to remove the vacuum cylinders to turn it into a Seacow. Lima did brand some of their RTR models Seacow but they retained the vacuum gear.

Image
A more involved conversion is to stretch the lima model to produce the larger 50ton Whale. These were started way before the Cambrian Kit appeared although they do now ride on their bogies. Hand wheels are again from Stenson models.

Image
Although a modest train for New Street its still virtually as long as Brettell Road!


Those do look the part. Amazing!

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glencairn
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby glencairn » Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:27 pm

People cans say about people's work and say with sincerity 'How wonderful it is' and they truly mean it.
Then you come across Jim's modelling.

There are modellers
There are good modellers.
There are some very good modellers
There are a few modellers who have that extra.
There is the odd modeller who has that extra extra. You know you want to be like them, but probably never will.
Then Jim 'blows everything out of the water'.

Thanks Jim.

Glencairn
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Jim S-W
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby Jim S-W » Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:54 pm

What are you babbling about? :D

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glencairn
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Re: Birmingham New Street and Brettell Road in P4

Postby glencairn » Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:00 pm

Jim S-W wrote:What are you babbling about? :D


Haven't a clue, but you know darn well.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Glencairn
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