Starlingford - The End of the Line

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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Pedanticmongrel
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Re: Starlingford - Going Ecclesiastical, pg 102

Postby Pedanticmongrel » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:52 pm

Black-Marlin wrote:
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Gavin, just a note to help you run your layout more realisitically, the 6 wheel milk tanks were classified as a passenger vehicle, being numbered as such and fitted, so they would only run attached to passenger trains on in fitted trains with vans, siphons, CCTs etc, running them as part of an unfitted goods looks incorrect. It's a mistake I used to make to a degree, I used to have a milk train with a brake van on the end, a pointless addition.
I'm back and now I model in 'Strain your eyes gauge'...

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Mighty
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Mighty » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:02 pm

Hi Gavin

Superb superb updates. I'd not visited in a while, so I've a fair bit of catching up to do, but lovely to see the layout progressing and it's nice to see your love of military modelling combining with the railway. Very interested to hear about the news of your club layout you are getting into, something I'm very envious of, though I was very sad to hear of the vandalism.

I'll be back once I've read through the posts thoroughly - you've achieved so much in such a short space of time!

All the best,

Chris
"We've shot off over a million cannon shells, and what's the result? One dachschund with a slight limp." - Blackadder

My layout thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20737

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Black-Marlin
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Re: Starlingford - Going Ecclesiastical, pg 102

Postby Black-Marlin » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:17 pm

Pedanticmongrel wrote:
Black-Marlin wrote:
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Gavin, just a note to help you run your layout more realisitically, the 6 wheel milk tanks were classified as a passenger vehicle, being numbered as such and fitted, so they would only run attached to passenger trains on in fitted trains with vans, siphons, CCTs etc, running them as part of an unfitted goods looks incorrect. It's a mistake I used to make to a degree, I used to have a milk train with a brake van on the end, a pointless addition.


Hi Dan

It's rare that I have the opportunity to do this, but... although the rake above is unusual, for precisely the reasons you outline, it is by no means unprecedented. There were certainly mixed trains of fitted/unfitted stock, and, like the above example, these tended to have the fitted wagons coupled to the locomotive, to be followed by the unfitted ones and finally their associated brake van. As a further note: goods trains made up of fitted vehicles were also tailed with a brake van - this only changed with the introduction of fully air-braked (as opposed to vacuum-braked) trains in the 1970s, when the guard (if still present) remained in the rear cab of the diesel hauling the train. I believe trains of dangerous chemicals are to this day still required to have a brake van containing the guard (so that in the event of a derailment he is not required to run down the length of the train to place detonators on the track). Your milk trains, if they were made up of vacuum-fitted stock, should have had some kind of guards van on the end :wink:

Regards,
Gavin

Oh, and since it's a new page: new pics....

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Black-Marlin
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Black-Marlin » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:20 pm

Mighty wrote:Hi Gavin

Superb superb updates. I'd not visited in a while, so I've a fair bit of catching up to do, but lovely to see the layout progressing and it's nice to see your love of military modelling combining with the railway. Very interested to hear about the news of your club layout you are getting into, something I'm very envious of, though I was very sad to hear of the vandalism.

I'll be back once I've read through the posts thoroughly - you've achieved so much in such a short space of time!

All the best,

Chris


Chris! Not dead, I see! How marvellous to have you back. Sadly I too am now away again, and so I'm back on the slow release of photos taken in the last modelling spurt, but I'm glad you think I got a lot accomplished - as always, I wish I had done more!

It was ever thus...
G

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tom92240
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby tom92240 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:30 pm

Both valid points, Dan and Gavin,

However in both cases there are slight flaws. A milk train was rated at higher speeds than the bog standard brake van, and would often be seen with a BY of some sort (my Southern milk train had a SR Van C on the end), as this was able to travel faster. Though milk tankers were never formed in goods trains, they could be part of a dedicated milk set like Dan once had, or on the end of passenger trains to be delivered to local dairy farms for picking up milk, like those that end up running on West Lulworth.

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Pedanticmongrel
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Pedanticmongrel » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:11 pm

Gavin, I get what you're saying but as Tom said milk trains didn't have goods brake vans as they were not rated for working at high enough speeds, they would have used a brake coach or a brake utility van. I also very much doubt any goods brake vans are in regular service on network rail metals, maybe on a very rare occasion to move something unusual but I very much doubt it, on todays skeleton network where paths are at a premium trains have to move as quick as possible and to achive this only fitted trains run redering the goods brake van redundant, the only ones I have seen are either rotting in sidings or sharks in the middle of ballast trains, which are generally slow pathed at night through possessions.
But the main point here is that 6 wheel milk tanks were classed as passenger vehicles due to their ability to run at high speed and it may suprise you but I have never seen any evidence of them at the front of a slow unfitted goods train but i have seen strings of them behind 8P express passenger locomotives with a brake coach on the end of the train.
Naturally though it's your layout and you can run whatever you like, indeed milk tanks and unfitted goods didn't do 70mph + round tight 45 degree bends, was just making you aware of how they were used in real life. By the way it's good to see you still put barrier wagons between your steam locomotives and fuel tanks/GPV's not had an explosion/fire yet then? :D
I'm back and now I model in 'Strain your eyes gauge'...

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Black-Marlin
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Black-Marlin » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:54 pm

Pedanticmongrel wrote:Gavin, I get what you're saying but as Tom said milk trains didn't have goods brake vans as they were not rated for working at high enough speeds, they would have used a brake coach or a brake utility van. I also very much doubt any goods brake vans are in regular service on network rail metals, maybe on a very rare occasion to move something unusual but I very much doubt it
...
Naturally though it's your layout and you can run whatever you like, indeed milk tanks and unfitted goods didn't do 70mph + round tight 45 degree bends, was just making you aware of how they were used in real life. By the way it's good to see you still put barrier wagons between your steam locomotives and fuel tanks/GPV's not had an explosion/fire yet then? :D


Hi Dan

Yes, still putting barrier wagons in place (and, with the GPVs, shunting them round the military sidings with carthorses!) so no disasters as yet. As regards the mixed train - I have seen photographs of a real example (albeit headed by a Q1). Naturally I assume that due to the unfitted nature of the rear of the train the train's maximum speed was 25mph rather than the higher speeds offered by the milk stock. Incidentally, the Queen Mary brake vans were also rated for faster travel and could regularly be found on milk trains. As far as the modern usage of brake vans go, they are, I believe, to be found in ballast rakes (as you pointed out), at the end of dangerous loads, and at the end of trains hauled by a sole single-cab locomotive such as a Class 20.

Regards,
Gavin

PS How's your 0-gauge adventure going?

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Pedanticmongrel
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Pedanticmongrel » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:22 pm

I'd guess that maybe they are used on branchlines but I can't think of any examples to support that theory. As someone who regularly sees the nuclear flask trains, (and loads don't come more dangerous than that), often class 20 hauled, I have never seen a brakevan on them, but it makes sense really a goods brake van would make them too slow to be pathed on the WCML.
The O gauge is going well, apart from the layout isn't exactly progressing, it's hard trying to find insentive to go into the attic when there are other things to see and do outdoors. I am counting down to guildex at the moment also, i haven't been to any exhibition or even an O gauge show since Bristol back in january, so it's long overdue.
I'm back and now I model in 'Strain your eyes gauge'...

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siquelme
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby siquelme » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:47 pm

Tut tut no blue King photo this time :(
Great Western Modeller for my sins
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Durseytu
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Durseytu » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:15 pm

Finally got there; It felt like I was reading through this thread from Page 1! Well I must say even though your layout year was described as 'mustard' as you put it in a post to me but it certainly feels like you have achieved much! I'm pleased to see that quite a bit of work has gone on above the tunnels and those superquick buildings look rather splendid, that and all the other little additions like the orchard. I'm also glad that Tornado has been repaired and now graces the layout once again. Despite numerous photos, with the amount of locos and stock you have all the pictures you take always show us something new.

I'm sorry to hear that the club got attacked by vandals. The mind boggles what brings such imbeciles in this world to do such a thing. Did anyone ever get caught? It would be such a shame if they managed to get away with it.

Anyway its good to catch up at last. This has always been one of my favourites!

Cheers,

Stuart
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Garethp8873
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Garethp8873 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:48 pm

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I like this pic :D . Especially because you utilise all the available space you have. I like the fact that even though there is a brick prodding out, you place your layout around it. I plan to do these with my layout when I come to do it.

Garethp8873.
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Durseytu
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Durseytu » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:04 pm

I like that pic because of a certain green beasty that can be seen in the lower left corner! :D

Cheers,

Stuart
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Black-Marlin
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Black-Marlin » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:55 am

siquelme wrote:Tut tut no blue King photo this time :(


Durseytu wrote:I like that pic because of a certain green beasty that can be seen in the lower left corner! :D

Cheers,

Stuart


These pictures are for you two :wink:

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Regards,
Gavin

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Infrontcat
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Infrontcat » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm

Hi Gav :)

How the devil are you? Glad to see more excellent pictures of your splendid layout. I must concur with the plaudits for the picture showing Tornado pulling out of the station. Corker of a shot 8)

Hope all's well mate. Sh*tter about the vandals. Hopefully, someone will have the good taste to sh*t in their shoes and pour kerosene down their underpants.

Cheers mate

Tim
"Kashi-mashi, kashi-mashi..."

Moorcroft (St Anthonys)

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Black-Marlin
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Re: Starlingford - Picture Perfect, pg 103

Postby Black-Marlin » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:50 pm

Infrontcat wrote:Hi Gav :)

How the devil are you? Glad to see more excellent pictures of your splendid layout. I must concur with the plaudits for the picture showing Tornado pulling out of the station. Corker of a shot 8)

Hope all's well mate. Sh*tter about the vandals. Hopefully, someone will have the good taste to sh*t in their shoes and pour kerosene down their underpants.

Cheers mate

Tim


Hi Tim

I'm grand thanks! And glad to see that Tornado still retains its fan club. I have actually brought it back to Scotland with me, along with its rake, so there may in time be some pics of it taking the viaduct (still to be constructed) on Tynedale... Speaking of which, construction has started! And, in a fit of inspiration, a solution to arch-making has been found: I bought a length of 112mm half-round drainpipe from B&Q. I will keep you all posted on the build. It may be some time, though - as of this week it's all hands on deck to repair the vandalised scenic work of another, exhibition-intended layout.

Regards,
Gavin

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