New layout

Discussion of model railway baseboard design and construction
JohnDisdle
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New layout

Postby JohnDisdle » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:35 am

My layout size is 1 x 1.8mtr. 9Mm ply, on a 50 x 20mm frame. It is hinged to the wall, but at pushing 80 years old, needing a lot of effort to raise it up to work on the underside.

So thinking of down sizing, to possibly 1 x 1.5 mtr base, with the same size wooden frame. But I need to know if I could manage to lift it. Sundeala is expensive, 9mm ply is the alternative.

The board would be mounted on legs, which would hopefully make it easier to lift and turn.
Any thoughts please...

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pete12345
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Re: New layout

Postby pete12345 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:29 am

How about using a rope and pulley system attached to the front corners of the layout. With enough pulley blocks you can multiply your effort and make raising the current board much easier.
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JohnDisdle
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Re: New layout

Postby JohnDisdle » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:22 am

Thanks Pete 12345.

My son had thought of that, but we decided that making holes in the ceiling, was not the best idea.

I have been thinking about cutting the baseboard, to make it shorter. Then making two end frames, and putting a large bolt through each end of the baseboard. The ends would slip onto the bolt, and the board pivoted up to a vertical position.
The bolts would be taking all the weight, but I would think 8 or 10mm should be big enough.

You thoughts on that please.

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End2end
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Re: New layout

Postby End2end » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:17 am

If it stands off the wall when in the lowered position have you thought about not having a solid baseboard at all?
One of those open frame types would be much lighter. PinkNosedpenguin said it better - viewtopic.php?t=49037#p601367
Failing that you could cut holes in the framework to make it lighter.
Or try a ply wood sandwich style.
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Bufferstop
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Re: New layout

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:57 am

Open frames are tricky beasts to build well, particularly if they have to be moved. The one piece top in ply or MDF adds a lot of rigidity to the frame, the depth of the frame stiffens the surface to prevent twisting and sagging. A fully open top base depends on gravity for much of it's stability. What you go for depends very much on whether you are building it yourself and how good your carpentry skills are.
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JohnDisdle
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Re: New layout

Postby JohnDisdle » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:36 am

Thanks End2end and Bufferstop.

Looked at those, thanks. I am thinking, that once the baseboard is on the end frames, I wouldn't be lifting it, just tilting up the front to get underneath – well that's the plan. I can see the advantage of an open frame, where scenery could be above and below the track. So more thinking...

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RAF96
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Re: New layout

Postby RAF96 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:05 pm

I would have suggested builders rigid foam insulation with a ply perimeter frame, but if you have wiring underneath then maybe not.
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JohnDisdle
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Re: New layout

Postby JohnDisdle » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:47 pm

Thanks RAF96.

Wiring will be underneath.

It poses another question though, I have been thinking about the weight. Can anyone tell me the difference between a 9mm ply baseboard 1mtr x 1.5mtr, and one made from Sundeala please. Many thanks.

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End2end
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Re: New layout

Postby End2end » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:57 pm

From the information i've garnered. best pratice is NOT to use Sundeala board.
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Roger (RJ)
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Re: New layout

Postby Roger (RJ) » Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:43 pm

JohnDisdle wrote:Thanks RAF96.

Wiring will be underneath.

It poses another question though, I have been thinking about the weight. Can anyone tell me the difference between a 9mm ply baseboard 1mtr x 1.5mtr, and one made from Sundeala please. Many thanks.



From information available via Google, Sundeala and plywood are roughly the same density. Sundeala technical information sheet says it is 500kg per cubic Metre ( https://www.sundeala.co.uk/wp-content/u ... -06-18.pdf ) while plywood varies between 400 to 700kg per cubic Metre.

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Bufferstop
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Re: New layout

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:29 pm

My experiences with Sundeala is that it requires a lot more cross bracing than ply or mdf. Even 4mm ply with 100mm deep framing in the same ply with well made joints will give a rigid lightweight frame, given my carpentry skill I stuck to 6mm and put up with the extra weight. I have my standard test for baseboards, - put it on a flat surface, put around 5kg weight at the centre, and lift by one corner, if it doesn't bend or twist it's ok.
If your baseboard is going to sit on a shelf or the top of furniture use sheets of rigid foam insulation, stick a thin ply facing to the edges and as a track bed. It's amazingly stable.
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JohnDisdle
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Re: New layout

Postby JohnDisdle » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:49 am

Thanks Bufferstop.

My baseboard is braced every fourteen inches, using a 2x1 frame. It's very solid, but heavy to raise up even with it hinged to the wall.

JohnDisdle
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Re: New layout

Postby JohnDisdle » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:54 am

Thanks Roger (RJ), for that Sundeala info. It looks as if there is only a little difference in weight, especially, as it would still have to be braced.
Ok, back square one...

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Forfarian
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Re: New layout

Postby Forfarian » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:59 pm

Does it have to be hinged to the wall?
Why not build it on "A" frames so it can be pivoted over, that would take no effort at all, it could be locked into the tilted position and the operating position quite easily with a bolt type latch.
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JohnDisdle
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Re: New layout

Postby JohnDisdle » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:18 am

Hi Forfarian.

Have you built a layout on an A frame. That is what I am thinking of doing. It makes a lot more sense, to be able to work on the underside even in a vertical position.

Thinking about Roger (RJ)'s reference to Sundeala, and the 200kg difference between ply, is quite a bit of weight.


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