Help for a beginner please

Discussion of N gauge model railway specific products and related model railway topics (problems and solutions). (Graham Farish, Dapol, Peco)
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daniel1
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:29 pm

Help for a beginner please

Post by daniel1 »

Hi guys and thank you for having me.

The forum seems very helpful and non-judging which is not always a given these days. I hope you can point me in the right direction with a few questions I have.

Sorry if this has been repeatedly asked but I’ve had quick look through the forum and couldn’t see anything similar.

Like most people due to the current situation I have more time on my hands and would like to get back into model railways. As a child I had a N Gauge Lay-out around my room and got into the hobby via my uncle. Many a Sunday were spent at local exhibitions and meet ups with him. I also grew up in Crewe so I suppose it was inevitable I would follow in his footsteps.

I want to start off with something small and have made a base 1100mm long and 220mm wide. I have taken inspiration from a design I saw on the railway modellers website called “layout in a box”.

https://www.railwaymodellers.com/layout ... rts-index/

The plan is to stay with Peco track as I believe it’s best not to mix (correct me if I’m wrong) and manual points. I would like to have power to the layout despite the relatively small size. I plan to have around three lines and 4 points. The layout will be in N Gauge.

So the question: What control/device do I need to be able to power the trains? I’m not looking to spend a lot of money and am hoping to purchase most of not all items from eBay. From what I understand DC will be fine as DCC is used for running multiple trains at the same time.
I believe it would also be best to feed power to few different locations of the track also, is that correct?

Any other pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Daniel
heda
Posts: 1078
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:56 am
Location: Wimborne

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by heda »

Welcome to the forum Daniel
As you say the forum on the whole is helpful and non judgmental, a good place to ask questions.
To answer yours, I would say best to stick with one make of track (Peco) although other makes may well be compatible. DC is fine especial for a low cost, small layout that you are planning. You can always upgrade to DCC in the future if you want to.
Regarding powering the track the best method is to run bus wires, which are simply two lengths of wire under the board and connect to each section of track. The reason for this is that you are not relying on rail joiners to pass power between rails, they can prove unreliable.
For anything electrical have a look at the link below.
Dave

https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/
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Mountain
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Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: UK.

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by Mountain »

Cab control is worth looking into if going down the DCC route and some controllers work with common return. (If the controller is not suitable or if in doubt then ordinary cab control methods will be fine).
If it seems to complicated (It is not really... It is more terms used to describe things) then a simple oval of track just needs a pair of wires going to it at a power feed to make it work. It can be as simple or complex as one wishes to make it.

Peco track in N gauge is interesting in that code 80 and code 55 just slots right into each other which is a very clever design. One can mix sectional and flexible track though in a small space, I would use sectional for the curves of an oval just because they "Keep" the curve better. Other then that be the points manual or remotely worked either by mechanical or electrical means or even pnematically operated (It is possible), it does not make a difference to the point itself. As long as the device used works and can be linked up to the points tie bar then all will be fine. The only real thing to mention is some points have live frogs and others have dead frogs and live frogs may need wiring differently. The frog is the central crossing part of the point. Dead frog points also known by Peco as insulfrog points are ones normally supplied in trainsets because they are easier to understand and need no extra wiring. Live frog points mean that the locos pickups work better while going over the point but do need some extra wiring to some sort of frog switch in most circumstances. Hand made points will mostly all be live frog. Peco call live frog points electrofrog. Most points have a springing mechanism to keep the point blades to one side or the other. Hand made points usually don't have this. (You will be unlikely to be thinking of handmade points in N gauge. I am only mentioning this for reference as a general all scales type of knowlwdge. I have seen some lovely handmade track in N gauge made by a modeller on this site (Was it you Heda? I can't remember), and it was some of the best looking track I have seen!).


But anyway. Welcome to the forum. I hope I have not gone over complicated in my reply.
heda
Posts: 1078
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:56 am
Location: Wimborne

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by heda »

I did build an N gauge layout but no the handmade track wasn't mine. Way beyond my capability
Dave
daniel1
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:29 pm

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by daniel1 »

heda wrote:Welcome to the forum Daniel
As you say the forum on the whole is helpful and non judgmental, a good place to ask questions.
To answer yours, I would say best to stick with one make of track (Peco) although other makes may well be compatible. DC is fine especial for a low cost, small layout that you are planning. You can always upgrade to DCC in the future if you want to.
Regarding powering the track the best method is to run bus wires, which are simply two lengths of wire under the board and connect to each section of track. The reason for this is that you are not relying on rail joiners to pass power between rails, they can prove unreliable.
For anything electrical have a look at the link below.
Dave

https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the welcome.
Ill have a look at the link you sent over the weekend but it looks like perfect. Almost a guide for dummies so hopefully I cant go wrong!
What is your opinion on power feed joiners? https://peco-uk.com/products/power-feed ... 0c30&_ss=r I would imagine that's a sure way of making sure there is no loose connection while taking away the need to use a soldering iron?

Thanks
daniel1
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:29 pm

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by daniel1 »

Mountain wrote:Cab control is worth looking into if going down the DCC route and some controllers work with common return. (If the controller is not suitable or if in doubt then ordinary cab control methods will be fine).
If it seems to complicated (It is not really... It is more terms used to describe things) then a simple oval of track just needs a pair of wires going to it at a power feed to make it work. It can be as simple or complex as one wishes to make it.

Peco track in N gauge is interesting in that code 80 and code 55 just slots right into each other which is a very clever design. One can mix sectional and flexible track though in a small space, I would use sectional for the curves of an oval just because they "Keep" the curve better. Other then that be the points manual or remotely worked either by mechanical or electrical means or even pnematically operated (It is possible), it does not make a difference to the point itself. As long as the device used works and can be linked up to the points tie bar then all will be fine. The only real thing to mention is some points have live frogs and others have dead frogs and live frogs may need wiring differently. The frog is the central crossing part of the point. Dead frog points also known by Peco as insulfrog points are ones normally supplied in trainsets because they are easier to understand and need no extra wiring. Live frog points mean that the locos pickups work better while going over the point but do need some extra wiring to some sort of frog switch in most circumstances. Hand made points will mostly all be live frog. Peco call live frog points electrofrog. Most points have a springing mechanism to keep the point blades to one side or the other. Hand made points usually don't have this. (You will be unlikely to be thinking of handmade points in N gauge. I am only mentioning this for reference as a general all scales type of knowlwdge. I have seen some lovely handmade track in N gauge made by a modeller on this site (Was it you Heda? I can't remember), and it was some of the best looking track I have seen!).


But anyway. Welcome to the forum. I hope I have not gone over complicated in my reply.
Thanks for the welcome and the info.
I must admit I had to read it twice before it started to sink in. Wish I had paid more attention to the electrical side when I was younger rather than just the scenic side of it! I was thinking of going with the Insulfrog points as like you said they are more suited to a beginner like myself and staying with DC to begin with as the layout in reality it is just a working diorama at this point.
Bigmet
Posts: 10172
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by Bigmet »

daniel1 wrote:...The plan is to stay with Peco track as I believe it’s best not to mix ...
What control/device do I need to be able to power the trains?...
Any other pointers would be greatly appreciated.
I feel you have a good handle on this. Keep it simple at first and then learn as you go. Starting with a single track system is a sound way to begin. Over time you can look at options for what will work with it, if that should appeal, and you will have gained some experience to enable you to gauge how well it works.

DC controller, I would suggest the Gaugemaster range, well made, lifetime guarantee, should be a good s/h selection available.

Other pointers. Aim to buy quality. It may cost a little a more, but then if well looked after will 'go on forever'. After a few years careful purchases you will finish up with a useful group of models to operate on your layout. I would start with a purchase of a loco and stock that are appropriate to your modelling interest, if for no other reason than to assess whether they are good enough to satisfy in the long term. I have seen quite a few folk over the years change their original plans very significantly, simply because what was available was not good enough for them.

Oh, soldering. For the electrical side alone it is such a valuable skill in this hobby. Don't avoid it, learn how. A good model railway shop or a large show will usually have someone demonstrating. You save yourself a fortune by being able to make good electrical connections as required, with no need for 'special components'.
heda
Posts: 1078
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:56 am
Location: Wimborne

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by heda »

The power feed joiners are better than relying on just one feed to the track but in my opinion not as good as soldering 'dropper' wire from the rails. There has been discussions over the use of power feed in the past, check out in the electronics section.
The only thing I would add at the moment, is do some research and ask questions and take one step at a time. When I started out building a model railway I found this forum and have benefited from loads of good advice and help without which I would have given up long ago.
Dave
heda
Posts: 1078
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:56 am
Location: Wimborne

Re: Help for a beginner please

Post by heda »

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