3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Discussion of N gauge model railway specific products and related model railway topics (problems and solutions). (Graham Farish, Dapol, Peco)
RichF
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3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby RichF » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:03 pm

Hello everyone,

It has been a while since I purchased my Graham Farish starter set but I've finally got round to sorting out the baseboard and choosing a layout I'm pretty happy with. I'm stuck with 6 by 4 as it has to magically disappear under the bed for now anyway - so it's nothing too special. The dark green is where I would put the tree line and the I might try my hand at a lake in the large empty space. Any advice would be much appreciated!

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Last edited by RichF on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

whynot
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Re: 6 by 4 layout

Postby whynot » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:33 pm

I know little about practical aspects of a tail chaser, but would not an additional link between the two loops be useful? Might lessen the need for reversing trains?

Nice to see that you've avoided the over-crowding trap - 6x4 is quite spacious for N.
dave j
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THE CHIEF
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Re: 6 by 4 layout

Postby THE CHIEF » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:06 am

Plan looks good. What radius curves are you using? I know second will fit on a 2ft board. It just looks smaller than 4x6 is all :wink: As above, its good to see you haven't gone for tons of track. This looks just right :)

RichF
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Re: 6 by 4 layout

Postby RichF » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:13 am

Sorry I don't know why I put 6 by 4 that is roughly the ratio but the actual size is 3ft 6ins x 2ft 3ins. So its the 1st and 2nd radius curves I did try and incorporate a section of 3rd radius but it got too complicated and you seem to be quite limited with Peco setrack.

On that note is it possible to get Peco setrack points with electrofrog rather than insulfrog?

whynot
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby whynot » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:49 am

"On that note is it possible to get Peco setrack points with electrofrog rather than insulfrog?"

Short answer - no!
dave j
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ceejaydee
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby ceejaydee » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:08 pm

I built a similar sized layout a while back 2'6" x 4' if memory serves me right.

General the radius of the curves was 12" using Setrack and larger curves laid in flex around the outside (opposite side to the station) using a Peco 6' way gauge.

Image

The track plan was like this for a number of reasons but if I did it again then I'd change the outer siding to a loop and probably add another siding to the inner one making more of a yard.

I wouldn't use Peco foam underlay again and I'd feed power to every section of track rather than relying on the fishplates for continuity from a couple of power feeds on each circuit.

Your plan looks good to me and if you have the Setrack then why not set up the track temporarily and give it run to see if you like it?
Regards
Christopher D.

RichF
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby RichF » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:51 pm

ceejaydee wrote:I wouldn't use Peco foam underlay again and I'd feed power to every section of track rather than relying on the fishplates for continuity from a couple of power feeds on each circuit.

Your plan looks good to me and if you have the Setrack then why not set up the track temporarily and give it run to see if you like it?


Wow that does look swell.

I know what you mean about the foam underlay, it does not look great and even says on it that it has a limited lifespan! I've already purchased some ballast scatter which says to use scenic cement to fix in place but I'm sure PVA will work :?:.

And when you say you'd feed power to every section how would you wire it? I've only played about with a single loop before so I could use some advice! And would I have to do anything special to get two trains running on the two loops simultaneously?

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ceejaydee
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby ceejaydee » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:34 pm

RichF wrote:
ceejaydee wrote:I wouldn't use Peco foam underlay again and I'd feed power to every section of track rather than relying on the fishplates for continuity from a couple of power feeds on each circuit.

Your plan looks good to me and if you have the Setrack then why not set up the track temporarily and give it run to see if you like it?


Wow that does look swell.

I know what you mean about the foam underlay, it does not look great and even says on it that it has a limited lifespan! I've already purchased some ballast scatter which says to use scenic cement to fix in place but I'm sure PVA will work :?:.

And when you say you'd feed power to every section how would you wire it? I've only played about with a single loop before so I could use some advice! And would I have to do anything special to get two trains running on the two loops simultaneously?


Now I'm a little rusty on some of these techniques and I hope that others will reply to you too :)

Diluted PVA around 50/50 with water and a drop of washing up liquid will be ideal for fixing ballast.
Some people apply the ballast dry brushing into shape before misting with water (with a drop of washing up liquid) to allow the PVA mix to flow better without moving the ballast.

Two loops will require two controllers and I'd probably suggest using insulated railjoiners between the two loops but you will then need to arrange some way of controlling both loops with one of the controllers should you wish to drive a train from one loop to the other.

In terms of wiring I would consider feeding each individual section of track to provide a failsafe method of ensuring electrical continuity.
Depending on you skill and experience with a soldering iron there are a number of ways of doing this:
Probably the easiest way would be to solder the Setrack railjoiners into position on the ends of each piece of track as they come and then solder a dropper/feeder wire to the underside of each joiner down through holes in your baseboard and then run a main or bus under the board feeding power to each piece from your controller.
I would favour soldering a feeder wire to the underside of each rail (on each piece of track) possibly halfway along its length and again dropping these through holes in the board to a power bus connected to the controller.

However I wouldn't worry about it too much and if you decide to go with a single power feed then give a squirt of Peco Electrolube or similar into each railjoiner as you assemble the track and take care when you use the PVA solution.

It may be worth picking up one of the Peco leaflets or similar on layout wiring then you'll get to see some visuals of how it is all done which is probably much easier to understand and digest than my ramblings here :wink:
Regards
Christopher D.

RichF
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby RichF » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:00 pm

Thinking about it I don't think the station on the inner loop will work because the radius is too tight. My design may need some alterations :cry:.

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ceejaydee
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby ceejaydee » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:44 pm

RichF wrote:Thinking about it I don't think the station on the inner loop will work because the radius is too tight. My design may need some alterations :cry:.


You could have an island platform at the left hand side of your plan in the space between the two loops.
A scenic break like a bridge between that and the other station would provide a visual separation between the two.
Regards
Christopher D.

RichF
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby RichF » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:58 am

There's 20% off Peco track in the modelzone closing down sale so I couldn't resist. Still need a few pieces and I'm not still sure what to do about the inner station. Grass and some paint is next on the list. Is it best to apply a first layer of scatter grass while the paint is still drying or wait for it to dry then PVA it?

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blooregard
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby blooregard » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:00 pm

RichF wrote:There's 20% off Peco track in the modelzone closing down sale so I couldn't resist. Still need a few pieces and I'm not still sure what to do about the inner station. Grass and some paint is next on the list. Is it best to apply a first layer of scatter grass while the paint is still drying or wait for it to dry then PVA it?



Paint it an earth colour (I tend to go for a light colour as scale does affect colour., think of the colour you want then go much lighter), apply PVA, then apply your scenic.

HOWEVER, do not rush into the scenic stage, get your track down, run the layout for a few weeks and then decide if you are happy with it. Generally the more scenery you have on the board, the harder it is to make alterations afterwards. Also a running in period gives you a good chance to make sure that your electrical continuity is sound and it lets all of the components expand and contract with the environment and lets them bed in.
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BROADTRAIN1979
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby BROADTRAIN1979 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:41 pm

RichF wrote:There's 20% off Peco track in the modelzone closing down sale so I couldn't resist. Still need a few pieces and I'm not still sure what to do about the inner station. Grass and some paint is next on the list. Is it best to apply a first layer of scatter grass while the paint is still drying or wait for it to dry then PVA it?

track.jpg


Hi , Its a nice not complicated little layout there, you could solder the joiners together but in heat could expand and break.. dropper wires from your track would give good voltage, as others have said. dropper wire thickness needs to be 7.0 mm wire which is the same as your controller wire to track. you can buy this at any hardware store B&Q ETC...
As with the buss wire under board, that is ordinary house elctric cable like you have on socket trailers 1.5 SIZE etc... again B&Q would sell this
there is a site on here Brian lambert i think?? he is in the electrics/ dcc thread and has simple to read diagrams of how to set this up ..well worth a look :)

Mark.
Youll never find a 501 like mine.

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blooregard
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby blooregard » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:27 pm

BROADTRAIN1979 wrote: dropper wire thickness needs to be 7.0 mm wire which is the same as your controller wire to track. you can buy this at any hardware store B&Q ETC...
As with the buss wire under board, that is ordinary house elctric cable like you have on socket trailers 1.5 SIZE etc... again B&Q would sell this
there is a site on here Brian lambert i think?? he is in the electrics/ dcc thread and has simple to read diagrams of how to set this up ..well worth a look :)

Mark.


Hi Mark, 7mm seems a little thick to me! I think you mean 7 strand 0.2 mm wire, it would work OK but would be overkill.

I also use this for bus wires but twisted together with an electric screwdriver.

I have tried soldering joints before, the layout ran really well but I included expansion joints and it was only a small end to end layout anyway, of course expansion will be more severe on a larger layout and if the track is in a loop has nowhere to expand into.
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BROADTRAIN1979
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Re: 3ft 6in by 2ft 3in layout

Postby BROADTRAIN1979 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:50 am

Hi , sorry i meant 7/0.2 strand, :oops: yes it could be a tad to thick. to be fair, I actually use 16/0.2 strand for droppers to the 1.5 bus wires, with no polarity problems at all , apart from keeping the track clean which is a chore in it self :)

Mark.
Youll never find a 501 like mine.


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