Shunting ideas.

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captrees
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Shunting ideas.

Postby captrees » Fri May 25, 2018 8:16 pm

Greetings all. Visiting the Hornby Museum in Margate this week has rekindled old dormant dreams of owning a trainset, to the extent that I’ve spent several hours lurking on this site. As a small boy I had access to 2 large layouts, and when I asked my parents for an electric train for Christmas, I got a clockwork one. I can remember my disappointment, nearly 60 years later!

I grew up near Oxenholme Station, so I envisage a layout with a bit of Shap Fell, the Ribblehead Viaduct, Black 5’s and shunting engines. One of my best early memories is riding on the footplate of a shunting engine, pushing an express to the top of Shap.

How far we’ll get with this is anyone’s guess, but I have a studio in the garden in Perth, Western Australia, that is crying out to house a rambling trainset. I don’t have the unlimited funds to do as I want, but now that I’m retired, time is not an issue. I look forward to communicating with you all.

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GeraldH
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby GeraldH » Fri May 25, 2018 8:34 pm

Sounds great go for it!
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854

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Mountain
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Mountain » Fri May 25, 2018 9:11 pm

Welcome. Start with a budget trainset and go from there! :)

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End2end
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby End2end » Fri May 25, 2018 9:33 pm

Hi captrees and welcome to the forum.
Mountain wrote:Start with a budget trainset and go from there! :)

Exactly what I did! DCC too!
I didn't even know the museum was still open. I may have to investigate. :idea:
Thanks
End2end
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Mountain
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Mountain » Fri May 25, 2018 11:17 pm

DCC. Straight into the deep end! :D

Is strange. For my 00 gauge items I have DCC but for 7mm narrow gauge I prefer DC. It depends what I'm doing I guess. Each has advantages but in different areas. I was just thinking today that I'm glad that the diesel I'm making in 7mm narrow gauge isn't for DCC as every available space apart from the cab has been used up to add weight to it via using lead. OK, I have the cab to use if needed, though it would be a bit too visible...
Yet for 00 gauge it was a more or less automatic choice when the prices of decoders dropped in 2001 and made it a sensible choice. Prior to this the budget decoders were £35 each when the average diesel in 00 gauge cost around £40. By 2004-5 bachmann had entered into DCC and were making subsidised decoders for as little as £7.50 each if bought in bulk packs of five and £7.95 if bought on their own.prices have dramatically risen since then of all model railway items by double twice over!
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw a loco which is DC, and other then the circuit board now having a DCC socket when it didnt before (Or if it did it was an 8 pin socket, just new in), used to be £45 (New central drive diesel) and now has a RRP of £170.

I have to say though, that if anyone is working to a very tight budget dont consider DCC, as one may find one has a fleet of locos waiting decades for one to buy decoders for the things! I have about 20 locos like this! If one does want to go into DCC, it is cheaper to buy a DCC trainset and go from there. I have to say that if one is new to the hobby, it does help to learn DC before going into DCC just to get a better understanding on what is going on...

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captrees
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby captrees » Sat May 26, 2018 9:05 am

End2end wrote:Hi captrees and welcome to the forum.
Mountain wrote:Start with a budget trainset and go from there! :)

Exactly what I did! DCC too!
I didn't even know the museum was still open. I may have to investigate. :idea:
Thanks
End2end


Yes, my thoughts are to start budget DCC.

The museum and shop are still at Margate, where there is only distribution now, not manufacturing. Apparently they are moving soon to a Canterbury industrial estate.

Thanks all for the welcome.

Bigmet
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Bigmet » Sun May 27, 2018 9:31 am

Welcome, and don't buy a train set without further research! (These are based on the hopelessly dated set track and if you have a large space, then a flexitrack system is cheaper, and means you are not restricted to the tiny radii of set track curves and points which make for poor running.)

And don't even think of buying Hornby's DCC, if you are on a budget. There is superior kit for less money, and it's an open system so you can mix and match. Again with the research.

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captrees
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby captrees » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:05 am

Bigmet wrote:Welcome, and don't buy a train set without further research! (These are based on the hopelessly dated set track and if you have a large space, then a flexitrack system is cheaper, and means you are not restricted to the tiny radii of set track curves and points which make for poor running.)


I have held off buying, as the research is confusing the hell out of me. And I appreciate the advice re track. My thoughts originally were to get a shunting train set to get started, but then saw how small the track radius was for those sets. But I do need shunting engine/s as her indoors keeps reminding me that I can't shut out the grandkids out. And they are not old enough to play with bigger steam locos.

Bigmet wrote:And don't even think of buying Hornby's DCC, if you are on a budget. There is superior kit for less money, and it's an open system so you can mix and match. Again with the research.


I am shying away from DCC now. My local shop tells me they won't be importing DCC into Aus soon, so don't buy. Then I spoke to a larger dealer who said that was *word censored*, but mentioned DCC prices if on budget, and suggested starting with analogue. And then he says why Hornby? as Bachmann is better. I was ripe to buy something off him, but walked out empty handed.

But I did go to the Perth Model Railway show at the final hour just as the dealers were packing up after 3 days, and managed to score myself a new DCC fitted Hornby Standard 4 loco and 4 new coaches for 1/3 of the price I'd have paid in Margate. So we have made a modest start.

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Emettman
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Emettman » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:03 am

captrees wrote: But I do need shunting engine/s as her indoors keeps reminding me that I can't shut out the grandkids out. And they are not old enough to play with bigger steam locos.


Depending on their age, bigger may be the answer, as there are options (less conventional) to keep young kids happy and and their hands off expensive OO locos and track.

My niece and nephews loved the Geotrax range with IR control locos as a "get out and play" train set.
Similarly acquired second hand the Faller Hit-train range or the Playmobil R/C range are good for temporary patio or lawn set-ups.

I've had my own experiments with OO shunting engines for kids, but that's another story.

Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Mountain
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Mountain » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:08 pm

If you log onto the Hattons site they have a lovely DC Bachmann trainset that looks lovely. It is:
30-130 Military Manoeuvres Train Set.

It really looks the part. Not sure if it is to your liking or not. I like the look of it. :mrgreen:

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Emettman
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Emettman » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:37 pm

Mountain wrote:If you log onto the Hattons site they have a lovely DC Bachmann trainset that looks lovely. It is:
30-130 Military Manoeuvres Train Set.

It really looks the part. Not sure if it is to your liking or not. I like the look of it. :mrgreen:


That diesel has a nice chassis!

Off topic, but given what they can go for the two Magic Train 016.5 are not extortionate!
http://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/Site ... t&pageid=1

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Mountain
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Mountain » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:56 pm

Wow Chris. What a find. Also Elaine's trains have a few Magic Train waggons.

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captrees
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby captrees » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:32 am

Well so far the research stage has reached the drawing board stage. I'm not going to buy a new train set, as other than the Flying Scotsman, there's nothing available locally. Someone gave me a large piece of board, so it was out with the tape measure. A tad too small at 110cm wide, so my research tells me. So its flexitrack and a controller, and we'll be away with a 1200 x 2400 board for starters.

I can get 36" lengths of Peco flexitrack quite cheap, but I am baffled by what type to use.
Peco OO/HO Gauge flexi track. Wooden sleepers with nickel silver rail code 83 rail.
PECO OO/HO STEEL-SLEEPER FLEXIBLE TRACK - CODE 75
PECO OO/HO WOOD SLEEPER NICKEL SILVER RAIL - CODE 100
PECO OO/HO WOOD SLEEPER NICKEL SILVER RAIL - CODE 75

Note sure what the "code' means?

How flexible is Flexi Track? Can I assume it will achieve say a 24" radius?

Basic controllers with transformers seem to be 1 Amp. I see similar ones are 2 Amp also. 1 Amp or 2?

Very basic questions from a beginner, but thanks in advance.

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Mountain
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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Mountain » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:44 am

The code is the rail height. Sectional track that comes with trainsets in 00 gauge is code 100.
Code 83 and code 75 are lower profile rail which (Depending on the track you want to model) offer a more realistic look but with the trade off that older models with deeper wheel flanges may not be able to use them. If you want to run older models go for code 100. (You can run both old and new on it). If you want to run newer models with a better realistic look use code 75. Code 83 is used mainly in the USA and this is better to represent their scale rail heights.

The height of rails vary considerably on the prototype as it depends on the intended use. When I worked on the railways we had such a mix. There were really high profile solid rails on the main lines around the local steel works, but on older branch lines there were old low profile thinner bullhead type. Most sidings will be the lower profile rails as these often were made by re-using old worn rails from the main lines to save costs. Though there are a great many profiles of rail used in the UK as just in the area I worked there were around five or more, the older rails here were mostly lower profile.

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Re: Shunting ideas.

Postby Emettman » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:41 pm

captrees wrote:, ...and we'll be away with a 1200 x 2400 board for starters.

How flexible is Flexi Track? Can I assume it will achieve say a 24" radius?



An 8x4 board is a fairly common choice, and if there is room for access to at least the two long sides it can work fairl;y well where "round and round" trains are a priority.
But including in the total space taken up that needed for access and operation, a much better layout can normal.y be designed by taking the track towards the outer part of that area and having the control and access space inside: better curves, longer trains, easier gradients (if on more than one level.)
Even if staying with an 8 x 4 board, an internal operating area / access space can make a lot of sense.

On curves, the Hornby R2862 (Radius 4) will just fit ion a 4ft board (23" centreline radius)
I would suggest fixed curved pieces for this and any curve sharper than that, rather than using flexitrack, as minor errors at this and smaller radii can leave critical tight spots.
Here thought should also be given to points. The "default" Hornby or Peco setrack points are very sharp (R2) and are of old dead-frog technology.
Live frog points are generally recommended, especially for slow running when shunting.

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."


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