Hello from Each Lancashire

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Mountain
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Mountain » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:34 pm

It actually looks in very good condition. The motor looks like new. The body does too. Try it on DC first. If it runs well then it can be converted. You have a spring that holds the brushes in place on the motor. This has an isolating sleeve. To convert to DCC, you need a second isolating sleeve on the spring for the other side. Both motor brushes need to be isolated from the wheels. Then red and black wires on the DCC decoder go to the wheel pickups (On this model, one will go to the springy pickups to the wheels and the other needs to be touching the chassis (Like wiring is to a car), and the two orange and grey wires from the decoder go to the two motor brushes. I reccomend a decoder which can handle an amp or more stalled current if you can find one. Though the motor my not take quite so much current then I stated, it is what I was told to stick to when I first entered DCC. I think the ones I had could take one and a half amps to be sure (Lenz decoders from the late '90's to early '20's).
The hook and the weight should free up with a very small amount of lubricant. Yes, the weight is very small, made just enough to do the job it needs to do. The hook and the weighted part should move freely. The hook is partly independent to the weight in a way if I remember correctly, as one direction the hook can lift without the weight, but if the weight moves the hook has to move if I remember correctly.
While compared to a real class 08, these are rather crude. The body itself isn't that bad but the way the chassis is made looks nothing much like an 08. However, it is very serviceable and was made with this in mind, along with using "Standard" parts from the Triang, and then Hornby range. Triang diesel shunters used a similar, if not the same chassis (Though cruder wheels) and had a different body design even though Triang marketed them as a class 08. It is possible Triang may have designed them in the days prior to the class 08 being produced? Elaine's trains usually have several Triang examples for sale, and I have one Triang example myself. The bodies look a bit like an LMS shunter (Can't remember who made them for the LMS) as the sides and front grill are different to the 08. The body on yours looks like an 08. I also have one of these, but mine shares the same body as yours but has the SSPP chassis (Super Strong Pulling Power. Actually yours has a more powerful motor. The SSPP design had a compensated chassis with centre wheels having traction tyres if I remember the model correctly!). These were the last types made before Hornby had an all new class 08 model which has the correct look to the chassis. It is actually more convincing looking than the Bachmann 08 (I have both examples of the newer models of these also).
There are other 00 gauge models of an 08 shunter which I will mention. One is the Lima class 08 which is aa nicer model then their class 09 (The con rods being more refined. The 09 is a decent model in its day and has the con rods in the right place), and the Hornby Dublo class 08, which were later sold by Wrenn. These were very well made and had the con rods in the right place, but I'm not sure if they can be converted to DCC (I looked at the one I used to have and didnt try!). The con rods were crude like the class 09 from Lima, but the Dublo/Wrenn class 08 was so well made that it wouldn't surprise me if they were still working away on model railways in 100 years time!
One more class 08 I have missed and this is a H0 model made for the European market. (B.R. had an excess of class 08's and similar locos and sold them to quite a few contries, Libeya being one. Also some ended up in France later via the Eurotunnel project). I'm trying to remember who made it. It is a really nice model. Can't remember if it was Joueff or Fleishmann or an European make like that.Roco rings a bell?

Nattcrawler
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Nattcrawler » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:40 am

Mountain wrote:It actually looks in very good condition. The motor looks like new. The body does too. Try it on DC first. If it runs well then it can be converted. You have a spring that holds the brushes in place on the motor. This has an isolating sleeve. To convert to DCC, you need a second isolating sleeve on the spring for the other side. Both motor brushes need to be isolated from the wheels. Then red and black wires on the DCC decoder go to the wheel pickups (On this model, one will go to the springy pickups to the wheels and the other needs to be touching the chassis (Like wiring is to a car), and the two orange and grey wires from the decoder go to the two motor brushes. I recommend a decoder which can handle an amp or more stalled current if you can find one. Though the motor my not take quite so much current then I stated, it is what I was told to stick to when I first entered DCC. I think the ones I had could take one and a half amps to be sure (Lenz decoders from the late '90's to early '20's).
The hook and the weight should free up with a very small amount of lubricant. Yes, the weight is very small, made just enough to do the job it needs to do. The hook and the weighted part should move freely. The hook is partly independent to the weight in a way if I remember correctly, as one direction the hook can lift without the weight, but if the weight moves the hook has to move if I remember correctly.
While compared to a real class 08, these are rather crude. The body itself isn't that bad but the way the chassis is made looks nothing much like an 08. However, it is very serviceable and was made with this in mind, along with using "Standard" parts from the Triang, and then Hornby range. Triang diesel shunters used a similar, if not the same chassis (Though cruder wheels) and had a different body design even though Triang marketed them as a class 08. It is possible Triang may have designed them in the days prior to the class 08 being produced? Elaine's trains usually have several Triang examples for sale, and I have one Triang example myself. The bodies look a bit like an LMS shunter (Can't remember who made them for the LMS) as the sides and front grill are different to the 08. The body on yours looks like an 08. I also have one of these, but mine shares the same body as yours but has the SSPP chassis (Super Strong Pulling Power. Actually yours has a more powerful motor. The SSPP design had a compensated chassis with centre wheels having traction tyres if I remember the model correctly!). These were the last types made before Hornby had an all new class 08 model which has the correct look to the chassis. It is actually more convincing looking than the Bachmann 08 (I have both examples of the newer models of these also).
There are other 00 gauge models of an 08 shunter which I will mention. One is the Lima class 08 which is aa nicer model then their class 09 (The con rods being more refined. The 09 is a decent model in its day and has the con rods in the right place), and the Hornby Dublo class 08, which were later sold by Wrenn. These were very well made and had the con rods in the right place, but I'm not sure if they can be converted to DCC (I looked at the one I used to have and didnt try!). The con rods were crude like the class 09 from Lima, but the Dublo/Wrenn class 08 was so well made that it wouldn't surprise me if they were still working away on model railways in 100 years time!
One more class 08 I have missed and this is a H0 model made for the European market. (B.R. had an excess of class 08's and similar locos and sold them to quite a few contries, Libeya being one. Also some ended up in France later via the Eurotunnel project). I'm trying to remember who made it. It is a really nice model. Can't remember if it was Joueff or Fleishmann or an European make like that.Roco rings a bell?


Thanks for all the information buddy! very helpful. I mean don't get me wrong, it works, but it's very jumpy on my test track and just looks like it could do with some lubricant but ill get some bits together and see if I can put a bit of oil on it and see how we do. I'll try to get a video together with it running and link it here. Overall it's in good condition, as far as I know, being a rookie! I will be eventually converting them to DCC yeah but not for a bit yet. I am just going to set up a DC layout then convert later this year I think. Although, I never stick to plans so ill probably end up keeping a DC test track forDC trains I buy before I commit to converting them to DCC and then going straight to DCC ha! I keep looking at other locos but I first need to establish what era I want to go for the most because whilst I like diesel locomotives, I do like steamy too so I might do 80s early 90s with a hint of steam in there.

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Mountain
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Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Mountain » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:23 pm

I found the early 1980's B.R. blue livery easiest to model. Just before the later crazy greys came in around 1986 onwards and after the headcode displays stopped displaying headcodes. (The headcode transition period being 1976-77 when the headcodes displayed 0O00, the second character being a letter and the rest numbers. After about 1978 on, the two dots as dimly lit lights became the norm., and if the black glass surround broke they were plated over with two holes drilled to show the marker lights instead).
Large logo livery in my area came in around 1984, though other areas saw it earlier by a couple of years. Many locos (Likely to be half the fleet!) never saw thew large logo livery before the greys came along, so one can easily mix large logo and small logo B.R. blue livery around the mid 1980's, or earlier in other areas of theUK to my area.

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BrightonMan
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby BrightonMan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:56 pm

End2end wrote:It's an 0-4-0 (tank?) loco.
Not sure but perhaps the MR is for Manchester Railway(s)?
Thanks
End2end


Hi Jordan. The MR on your loco stands for Midland Railway, which eventually became part of the LMS and then BR. The loco is known as a 'Pug' (not sure why, something to do with it being like a small dog maybe?) It is an 0-4-0 saddle tank, which basically means that the water tank wraps around the boiler, much as a saddle would sit on a horse..hence the name. No idea if the Midland Railway ever used these loco's, Hornby are very good at putting random liveries on their small tank loco's. Hope this helps
Thanks
Kevin

Nattcrawler
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Nattcrawler » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:42 am

Mountain wrote:I found the early 1980's B.R. blue livery easiest to model. Just before the later crazy greys came in around 1986 onwards and after the headcode displays stopped displaying headcodes. (The headcode transition period being 1976-77 when the headcodes displayed 0O00, the second character being a letter and the rest numbers. After about 1978 on, the two dots as dimly lit lights became the norm., and if the black glass surround broke they were plated over with two holes drilled to show the marker lights instead).
Large logo livery in my area came in around 1984, though other areas saw it earlier by a couple of years. Many locos (Likely to be half the fleet!) never saw thew large logo livery before the greys came along, so one can easily mix large logo and small logo B.R. blue livery around the mid 1980's, or earlier in other areas of theUK to my area.


I keep checking for different liverys in them but i cant bring msyelf to buy any more loco's yet until i have at least started my layout! :(

BrightonMan wrote:
End2end wrote:It's an 0-4-0 (tank?) loco.
Not sure but perhaps the MR is for Manchester Railway(s)?
Thanks
End2end


Hi Jordan. The MR on your loco stands for Midland Railway, which eventually became part of the LMS and then BR. The loco is known as a 'Pug' (not sure why, something to do with it being like a small dog maybe?) It is an 0-4-0 saddle tank, which basically means that the water tank wraps around the boiler, much as a saddle would sit on a horse..hence the name. No idea if the Midland Railway ever used these loco's, Hornby are very good at putting random liveries on their small tank loco's. Hope this helps
Thanks
Kevin


ah thats cleared that up thanks Kevin :)


One question I have chaps. Just looking into starting my layout to some degree and i have been looking at kitchen unit bases. The one i was looking at was 570mm in depth which isnt that deep, i mean my desk is deeper lol. But if i got one of these, and used quite thick ply on the top, should i be worried about the edges if my ply was to overhand by say 400mm? Obviously it will have more bracing in the middle, but i figured it would be a good start from the storage aspect too. What do you guys think?

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TimberSurf
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby TimberSurf » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:55 pm

Nattcrawler wrote:One question I have chaps. Just looking into starting my layout to some degree and i have been looking at kitchen unit bases. The one i was looking at was 570mm in depth which isnt that deep, i mean my desk is deeper lol. But if i got one of these, and used quite thick ply on the top, should i be worried about the edges if my ply was to overhand by say 400mm? Obviously it will have more bracing in the middle, but i figured it would be a good start from the storage aspect too. What do you guys think?


a. very narrow
b. very tall
c. unless 30mm deep or braced, ply will droop off ends
d. hard to get to electrics under board inside cupboard
e. 4 off 2x1 are cheaper

see pic and more
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

Nattcrawler
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Nattcrawler » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:08 am

TimberSurf wrote:
Nattcrawler wrote:One question I have chaps. Just looking into starting my layout to some degree and i have been looking at kitchen unit bases. The one i was looking at was 570mm in depth which isnt that deep, i mean my desk is deeper lol. But if i got one of these, and used quite thick ply on the top, should i be worried about the edges if my ply was to overhand by say 400mm? Obviously it will have more bracing in the middle, but i figured it would be a good start from the storage aspect too. What do you guys think?


a. very narrow
b. very tall
c. unless 30mm deep or braced, ply will droop off ends
d. hard to get to electrics under board inside cupboard
e. 4 off 2x1 are cheaper

see pic and more


Ah I get you, yeah maybe need to rethink it then, thanks for the input buddy :)

Nattcrawler
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Nattcrawler » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:52 pm

So this is a very rough photoshop of how I vision my baseboards. Just want to get peoples opinions.

Image

I'm not sure on the design of the top yet whether to do it modular so I can put a few more rises in. But I am hoping to have a loop that will go up to the top and down back to the bottom but also have a small fiddle yard at the top maybe. Plans may change as I start to build but with my limited space due to the loft being a no go, I think this will suffice for now!

Hoping to have it all DCC using Railmaster. I have a touchscreen all in one PC to go on the wall to use as a PC monitor for my main PC but also as a touchscreen for Railmaster.

What are peoples opinions, this will be my first ever layout :)

EDIT: This is in my kitchen diner. Appliances are a chest freezer and a drier.

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TimberSurf
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby TimberSurf » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:25 pm

The guide is not to have it wider than 3 feet, else you cant reach the back, unless there is access at the back or you can pull it out.
88in is too long (unmanageable) for length, especially at 43in wide! Probably needs splitting in the middle.
How will you get to the appliances? Dismantle or up end the layout?
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

Nattcrawler
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Nattcrawler » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:43 am

TimberSurf wrote:The guide is not to have it wider than 3 feet, else you cant reach the back, unless there is access at the back or you can pull it out.
88in is too long (unmanageable) for length, especially at 43in wide! Probably needs splitting in the middle.
How will you get to the appliances? Dismantle or up end the layout?


Ah ok, I didn't think of that yeah. So maybe stick to 3 feet then, I just hope that is wide enough for what I have planned in my head. So 88" is too long? even with 6 legs in the middle, framework round top and bottom and framework inside at the top? The only issue I have with splitting them is getting them to sit level as it isn't the flattest of surfaces so I planned to put adjustable feet in the bottom of each leg to get it level.

I probably should have mentioned they are the back of the appliances, so can still get to the front of them :)

So would you do 2 @ 36" x 44" then the bottom of the "L" 36" x 36" square?

I am also thinking about doing away with the Rise and following Everard Junction old method of having the loop go underneath the layout to a fiddle yard as I think due to space, it would create the illusion the loop is bigger than it is.

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TimberSurf
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby TimberSurf » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:41 pm

The 36in depth is a guide. Even 30in is a stretch if you actually want to do some work! Larger than 36in is possible but you end up balancing on a chair over the layout! :!: But 36in is small for your track radius if you want a loop. If it needs to be greater than 36in, you need access to the other side Either permanent or allow boards to move away from the wall. Its hard enough to man handle a 4 x 8 ft sheet, when it also has a frame, buildings sticking out and extra weight, its impossible as a one man job. 2ft x 6ft is just manageable, but 3ft width or over needs to have a length shorter than 6ft.
Legs need to be every 3-4ft apart, unless the frame is exceptional rigid/strong!

If you want to make removable (for room move/house move/maintenance to the back) make it as you say in three sections with adjustable feet. It is extra effort (to disguise join with scenery/line up track, etc) but worth it for the ability to move/maintain the layout.
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby luckymucklebackit » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:03 pm

How about a dumbell layout, I searched in vain for an example to show you but the very basic idea is as per below, you can have reasonamly large radii at the ends but the centre of the layout is quite narrow and easy to access

dumbell.jpg


Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
Image

Nattcrawler
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Nattcrawler » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:05 pm

TimberSurf wrote:The 36in depth is a guide. Even 30in is a stretch if you actually want to do some work! Larger than 36in is possible but you end up balancing on a chair over the layout! :!: But 36in is small for your track radius if you want a loop. If it needs to be greater than 36in, you need access to the other side Either permanent or allow boards to move away from the wall. Its hard enough to man handle a 4 x 8 ft sheet, when it also has a frame, buildings sticking out and extra weight, its impossible as a one man job. 2ft x 6ft is just manageable, but 3ft width or over needs to have a length shorter than 6ft.
Legs need to be every 3-4ft apart, unless the frame is exceptional rigid/strong!

If you want to make removable (for room move/house move/maintenance to the back) make it as you say in three sections with adjustable feet. It is an extra effort (to disguise join with scenery/line up track, etc) but worth it for the ability to move/maintain the layout.


Ah ok, I understand now. So basically, if I want a loop up top I need to be looking at greater than 36" but I need to be able to access it from the back to do work on it. Well with my plans in my head, if they work out the way I want them too, I shouldn't need a loop up top. Meaning I can probably stick with the 24" giving me more to create decent scenery and stations and it will still allow locomotives to loop around the layout. I plan to have 3 lines, to begin with pointing to move 2 and from. Like i said im taking my idea from Everard Junction on Youtube with the fiddle yard underneath the layout and the main track looping underneath the layout and back out the other side.

What I will do is probably make it into 4 sections, the bottom of the L then split the biggest part up into 3 and make sure that I can pull them apart if I need to transport the layout. That being the case I can probably make it all one level too if my plan works out.

I appreciate all the advice buddy thank you, made me think about a lot of points, to be honest.

Nattcrawler
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby Nattcrawler » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:08 pm

luckymucklebackit wrote:How about a dumbell layout, I searched in vain for an example to show you but the very basic idea is as per below, you can have reasonamly large radii at the ends but the centre of the layout is quite narrow and easy to access

dumbell.jpg

Jim


Erm, I'm not a big fan personally, it doesn't seem big enough to me. I know that sounds strange considering this is my first layout but I want it to be quite big or at least give the impression of being big. I'm one of those, go hard or go home kind of people! :D

Thank you though.

Just looked at your layout Jim, looks awesome, do you have a youtube channel?

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: Hello from Each Lancashire

Postby luckymucklebackit » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:17 pm

I have a horrible feeling that you are going to make the same mistakes as a lot of new modellers. However, its your project - best of luck with it.

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
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