My paint is too thin?

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ChrisGreaves
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My paint is too thin?

Postby ChrisGreaves » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:20 pm

Well, it didn't take me long to get into a problem.
20210318_183201.jpg
I made a start today, pulled out the Dapol 0-4-0 Pug and a bottle of what I took to be matt black, and it brushed on like paint thinner in which had been dipped a paint brush. Pulled out the other bottle and got the same result.
These are not the paints I grew up with - tiny Humbrol cans - and I will essay with one of those tomorrow. A jar of Mr Colour 604 Olive green perhaps, although I think Pug out to be a grimy coal-dust black.

The left-hand flask reads "Panel Line Accent Color (Black).
The right-hand flask reads, I now see "My Weathering Color - Multi-Black". That's probably why it is wishy-washy, and I bet that all you professional guys will know that. And I hope you are chuckling to yourselves, but I know you are too nice to admit that.

OK. I had to order from an online catalogue that was not at all clear to me.

All the 40 paint jars/cans have written material on the labels in about 4-pt font.

I am not upset; in my intro I wrote "I worry that I might find that railway modelling has suffered a few changes in the past sixty years." and I knew that I would be learning new stuff.
So?
I suspect that both jars of wishy-washy are just weathering stuff. Lordy Lord! I bought SIX jars thinking that it was paint!
My Pug will be painted and then glued together, as will the other seven Dapol kits. I made this a learning exercise, to flex fingers and focus eyes.

I seek confirmation that I do indeed have the best collection (six jars!) of weathering paint in Bonavista (population 3,800).
I will take a stab at Olive Green, and possibly Buffer-Red tomorrow afternoon. We have scheduled 24-hour rainstorm coming at us.
Cheers
Chris

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flying scotsman123
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby flying scotsman123 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:05 pm

Check that there's not a thick sludge at the bottom, but yes, I strongly suspect you do have weathering paints which are intended to be wishy washy. Sorry :|
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centenary
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby centenary » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:43 pm

ChrisGreaves wrote:Well, it didn't take me long to get into a problem.
20210318_183201.jpgI made a start today, pulled out the Dapol 0-4-0 Pug and a bottle of what I took to be matt black, and it brushed on like paint thinner in which had been dipped a paint brush. Pulled out the other bottle and got the same result.
These are not the paints I grew up with - tiny Humbrol cans - and I will essay with one of those tomorrow. A jar of Mr Colour 604 Olive green perhaps, although I think Pug out to be a grimy coal-dust black.

The left-hand flask reads "Panel Line Accent Color (Black).
The right-hand flask reads, I now see "My Weathering Color - Multi-Black". That's probably why it is wishy-washy, and I bet that all you professional guys will know that. And I hope you are chuckling to yourselves, but I know you are too nice to admit that.

OK. I had to order from an online catalogue that was not at all clear to me.

All the 40 paint jars/cans have written material on the labels in about 4-pt font.

I am not upset; in my intro I wrote "I worry that I might find that railway modelling has suffered a few changes in the past sixty years." and I knew that I would be learning new stuff.
So?
I suspect that both jars of wishy-washy are just weathering stuff. Lordy Lord! I bought SIX jars thinking that it was paint!
My Pug will be painted and then glued together, as will the other seven Dapol kits. I made this a learning exercise, to flex fingers and focus eyes.

I seek confirmation that I do indeed have the best collection (six jars!) of weathering paint in Bonavista (population 3,800).
I will take a stab at Olive Green, and possibly Buffer-Red tomorrow afternoon. We have scheduled 24-hour rainstorm coming at us.
Cheers
Chris


Panel Line colour isnt a paint. It's also known as a 'wash.' The use of panel line colour is to highlight panel lines on models, usually tanks, planes or other models that are not black in colour.

The idea is to 'wash' the area of the model with a loaded brush and then remove as much or as little as you want. When it dries, the main colours underneath show through but, where there's supposed to be a joining of metal panels, this is now highlighted and darker.

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Ironduke
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby Ironduke » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:48 pm

Along with my paint collection, which mainly I use for throwing away when they dry up, I have spray cans of Tamiya flat black and flat white as well as a primer which I find very useful for many of the basic jobs (and they keep better).
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Rob

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Bufferstop
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:49 pm

I use a stirrer made from a paper clip, poked through a card disk as a splash guard then held in the jaws of a mini-drill. Thirty seconds of stirring will usually restore a tinlet of paint which has separated into sludge and solvent. The main component of the sludge is French chalk which is added as a flatting agent. I hold the tin in the rubber covered jaws of the vice from my pillar drill rather than trying to hang on to the tin with one hand, whilst holding the drill in the other and somehow switching the darned thing on without letting go of either!
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Mountain
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby Mountain » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:03 am

About two or three years ago I saw such a lovely green Humberol paint that I decided that it was worth the very inflated price and I paid the £2.50 for the tiny tin and I bought it.

I spent a whole fifteen minites sturring it trying to make sure it was mixed properly as it was too runny.
Well. I applied it to the model and it came out soo watery that I would have had to give it around thirty coats to get the colour to be seen! It was horrible.

Since then I use ordinary household exterior paint on my models when I have run out of certain colours because at least I know I have paint and I can get better value for my money as well. For around £5 to £7 I can get a test pot which has around ten times the paint than what fits in those little Humberol tins, and I use both gloss and matt paints where appropiate on my models. Gloss on the locos and coaches and matt on the wooden bodied rolling stock and they look fine.

The loco which was going to be a lovely metallic green ended up as a B.R. blue. (Is a 7mm narrow gauge loco which I paint them in the colours I happen to like at the time).

ChrisGreaves
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby ChrisGreaves » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:36 pm

To all who responded, many thanks. Day by day I am getting up to speed!

FS123> Check that there's not a thick sludge at the bottom, but yes, I strongly suspect you do have weathering paints which are intended to be wishy washy.

Thank you FS123 (if I may!). No sludge. The glass jars have what sounds like a small glass marble rolling around inside (brilliant!). I scraped the bottom of the container with a very thin sliver and detected no sludge. Rather like swinging the lead and checking the clay that adheres to navigate around The Grand Banks, I have read. As I write, I realize that that's what the plastic stems are for when I have snipped off the parts from the kits. Stir Sticks, and on the genuine plastic too!


Centenary> Panel Line colour isn’t a paint. It's also known as a 'wash.' The use of panel line colour is to highlight panel lines on models, usually tanks, planes or other models that are not black in colour. The idea is to 'wash' the area of the model with a loaded brush and then remove as much or as little as you want. When it dries, the main colours underneath show through but, where there's supposed to be a joining of metal panels, this is now highlighted and darker.

Thank you Centenary. So I chanced on the wrong paint to begin my little odyssey. Oh well, no harm done.
If I understand you, the wash would drop into the small gaps between panels, then when I wipe a cloth over the body, those gaps would retain the black wash and that would accentuate them to the eye.


Ironduke > Along with my paint collection, which mainly I use for throwing away when they dry up, I have spray cans of Tamiya flat black and flat white as well as a primer which I find very useful for many of the basic jobs (and they keep better).

Thanks for this tip, Ironduke. I refrained from ordering spray cans on the grounds that I should first try a simpler brush as in The Good Old Days, but I realize that spray cans of hobby paint weren’t visible to me as a 14-year old, so they did not form part of my hobby memory.
We are about to learn the rules of shipping aerosol cans through the mail, I guess :flee:


Bufferstop >
I use a stirrer made from a paper clip, poked through a card disk as a splash guard then held in the jaws of a mini-drill. Thirty seconds of stirring will usually restore a tinlet of paint which has separated into sludge and solvent. The main component of the sludge is French chalk which is added as a flatting agent. I hold the tin in the rubber covered jaws of the vice from my pillar drill rather than trying to hang on to the tin with one hand, whilst holding the drill in the other and somehow switching the darned thing on without letting go of either!

Thanks Bufferstop. On receipt of my 40 paints I stocked a small carton with them and ritually flip the carton over each morning on the grounds that even a mildly effective stirring is better than no stirring at all.
On top of that I have a collection of 4mm stir sticks that I bring home from the café (Second Use For Everything) which I shall use with the cans of “real paint”. Too they will give me a better idea of the true content of a can, perhaps a stock of paint chips for future use.
I have no vice (maybe some vices, but …) and no pillar drill. This is all-done-by-hand right now.


Mountain > … I use ordinary household exterior paint on my models when I have run out of certain colours because at least I know I have paint and I can get better value for my money as well.

BRILLIANT! (to coin a painting phrase)
Thanks for this tip. I am becoming known for my Second Use For Everything views; just this week I collected a half-full pint pot of egg-shell. Armed with this link https://stationcolours.com/ I can take a test sample of all my cans of leftover paint and match the colour to a livery to discover what company I am modeling this week (cheeky grin).
Why didn’t *I* think of using regular paint. Another good experiment to try out on my eight starter kits.
I suppose too that one could use interior or even exterior house paints on buildings (gets excited …)


Cheers
Chris

ChrisGreaves
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby ChrisGreaves » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:12 pm

ChrisGreaves wrote:Well, it didn't take me long to get into a problem....
After posting my block-response I got all-enthusiastic. The kitchen can be cleaned up any time, but testing paints is much more important.
Bonavista_20210319_102820.JPG

I painted one half in "Mr Color 604 flat camouflage" We can see the difference.

I then rinsed out the paintbrush in kerosene, having no mineral turps to hand.

THEN a light-bulb, based partly on Mountain's response - when we are talking life-size cans of paint, we are talking latex paint, right? Sixty years ago model paint (Humbrol) was called "Enamel" I think and was oil-based, hence mineral turps.

I had not thought to ask if today's hobby paints are latex, and hence rinse-in-water.
20210319_103659.jpg
I am, however, smart enough to take a photo and read the text on the laptop. (I was not kidding about 4pt. Bloody Lawyers ...).
I see that it has been saying "DANGER" in bright red all along. Also when I squint "methyl-something", so now I suspect that the cans/tinlets/small jars are indeed oil-based.
Cheers
Chris

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Bufferstop
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:16 pm

I have no vice (maybe some vices, but …) and no pillar drill. This is all-done-by-hand right now.


Hands are the most versatile tool there is, but limited by being rationed to two per person. I too have a supply of 6 x 1mm planks with rounded ends. Oddly they stick together when you take one to stir your coffee, rather like Ikea's little stubby pencils do. Not that there's been much chance to have coffee recently. In the last year we managed to sit down with a coffee and watch the world go by just once between lockdowns.
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captrees
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby captrees » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:58 pm

What happened to those little squeezy paint capsules that came with some kits and you cut the teet off them and squeezed the paint out?

I am a big fan of those paint sample pots. $7 at Mitre 10, and they'll mix whatever colour you want. The acrylics water down well. On one green loco that wanted to be black, I used Pot Belly Stove Paint. Goes on like water and sticks to anything. Perfick, it was.

muggins
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby muggins » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:40 pm

ChrisGreaves wrote: ... I had not thought to ask if today's hobby paints are latex, and hence rinse-in-water.


You're thinking of acrylic paints, not "latex".

:)

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Roger (RJ)
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby Roger (RJ) » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:12 pm

What is latex paint? I've seen/heard references to it on some American YouTube videos but I haven't a clue what it's supposed to be used for.

21C1
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby 21C1 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:14 pm

Latex paint is what we in Britain would normally call emulsion paint.

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captrees
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby captrees » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:33 pm

Roger (RJ) wrote:What is latex paint? I've seen/heard references to it on some American YouTube videos but I haven't a clue what it's supposed to be used for.


21C1 wrote:Latex paint is what we in Britain would normally call emulsion paint.


Is it? What is emulsion paint then? I bought a spray can of "latex" paint recently, thinking it might be rubbery to paint and seal my seaweed bushes. It was quite thick, and served its purpose.

Now I'm confused about "emulsion". Last week I went to a posh pub for lunch where the menu was undecipherable. Nowadays its just as easy to read a menu in French or Spanish because of all the idiot new words they use in English. Anyway I fancied a pasta dish, and ordered something that was dished up with an "emulsion of white wine." I'm thinking, well emulsion is bloody paint, isn't it? So I expected a sort of carbonara, and it was just nasty greasy muck. Not going there again.

ChrisGreaves
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Re: My paint is too thin?

Postby ChrisGreaves » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:33 pm

Right!
Define what you (all) mean by Acrylics, Stove Paint, Latex, Emulsion, Oil-based, Enamel, …
I will get the ball rolling by suggesting a division between water-based paints and all other types (which I think of as oil-based). That means I would classify a paint according to whether the brushes/roller/spray-gun can be cleaned with water, or whether one must use a special solvent.
In my youth, oil-based paints were used to apply gloss to door frames and skirting boards. The brushes HAD to be cleaned in mineral turpentine (my mother’s words!)
When ***I*** say latex, I mean a water-solvent paint; but I don’t know whether latex is a term used when painting rooms for my Lancashire mother, my first wife in our Australian residences, or my dreary existence in Canada.
Homework assignment: Classify Acrylics, Stove Paint, Latex, Emulsion, Oil-based, Enamel, … according to their solvent.


Postby Bufferstop » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:46 am

Hands are the most versatile tool there is,

:snigger: :chortle:

Postby captrees » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:28 pm

I am a big fan of those paint sample pots. $7 at Mitre 10, and they'll mix whatever colour you want. The acrylics water down well. On one green loco that wanted to be black, I used Pot Belly Stove Paint. Goes on like water and sticks to anything. Perfick, it was.
I never have been aware of sample pots, not Here, not There. I recall buying pots that must have been about 1 cup measure, not mixed but off-the-shelf, probably had a name like “Dulux Touchup” or similar.

Postby muggins » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:10 pm

ChrisGreaves wrote: ...
I had not thought to ask if today's hobby paints are latex, and hence rinse-in-water.
You're thinking of acrylic paints, not "latex".

Please note my confused comments above :grin:

Postby Roger (RJ) » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:42 pm

What is latex paint? I've seen/heard references to it on some American YouTube videos but I haven't a clue what it's supposed to be used for.
***I*** use it to paint walls. It comes in 1-gallon cans ($cdn40 and up) and they add a sachet of dye, leave it in a shaker machine for five minutes, and swear that if you come back for more it will be a matching shade.


Postby 21C1 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:44 pm

Latex paint is what we in Britain would normally call emulsion paint.
Presumably because that sort of paint is an emulsion (“A suspension of small globules of one liquid in a second liquid with which the first will not mix”) with solids in suspension in liquid water, as distinct from oil-based paints which, I suspect, are solids in suspension in an oil, such as mineral turpentine. :confused:

Postby captrees » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:03 pm

Roger (RJ) wrote:
What is latex paint? I've seen/heard references to it on some American YouTube videos but I haven't a clue what it's supposed to be used for.
21C1 wrote:
Latex paint is what we in Britain would normally call emulsion paint.
Is it? What is emulsion paint then? I bought a spray can of "latex" paint recently, thinking it might be rubbery to paint and seal my seaweed bushes. It was quite thick, and served its purpose.
Now I'm confused about "emulsion". Last week I went to a posh pub for lunch where the menu was undecipherable. Nowadays its just as easy to read a menu in French or Spanish because of all the idiot new words they use in English. Anyway I fancied a pasta dish, and ordered something that was dished up with an "emulsion of white wine." I'm thinking, well emulsion is bloody paint, isn't it? So I expected a sort of carbonara, and it was just nasty greasy muck. Not going there again.

Let’s not get carried away with patriotic blather. Even ***I*** know that money spent in a posh restaurant would be better spent online shopping from Model Railway Stores. Priorities!
P.S. My Word2003 spell-check suggests “coronary” as a replacement for “carbonara”.

Thanks to all.
(signed) “Less Clued In Than I Had First Thought” of Bonavista.


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