RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

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6412
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby 6412 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:02 pm

luckymucklebackit wrote:Why on earth Hornby (and Bachmann) don't match the boxshifters prices and cut out the middle man altogether I don't know. For example, the new A2/2 and A2/3 Pacifics are available to preorder on the Hornby website at £189.99, delivery is £4.98 so total cost £194.97. On the Hattons website the price is £171 plus £4 postage - total £175, Antics Online 170.99 and free postage - It is pretty obvious where I would place my pre-order but Hattons and Antics must be making something to cover their costs so surely Hornby could match that price and go it alone.

Jim

If they did this would it not harm the Hobby Shop network?

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stuartp
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby stuartp » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:10 pm

They tried that a couple of years ago, and closed their concessions network. It didn't end well.
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luckymucklebackit
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby luckymucklebackit » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:23 pm

6412 wrote:
luckymucklebackit wrote:Why on earth Hornby (and Bachmann) don't match the boxshifters prices and cut out the middle man altogether I don't know. For example, the new A2/2 and A2/3 Pacifics are available to preorder on the Hornby website at £189.99, delivery is £4.98 so total cost £194.97. On the Hattons website the price is £171 plus £4 postage - total £175, Antics Online 170.99 and free postage - It is pretty obvious where I would place my pre-order but Hattons and Antics must be making something to cover their costs so surely Hornby could match that price and go it alone.

Jim

If they did this would it not harm the Hobby Shop network?


Whats left of the Hobby shop network you mean, the big box shifters have pretty much seen to them.
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stuartp
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby stuartp » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:14 pm

6412 wrote:So have I got this right? Bachmann are no longer supplying Hattons and Hornby no longer supplying Rails But both Hattons & Rails have stocks of Bachmann/Hornby items which they can sell to you?

Whatever the rights and wrongs of all this I think all should sit down and discuss this as whatever you think of these Box Shifters they do form a large part of the supply chain to us the humble modeller!


Yes, and I think it's gone beyond that stage, in that order.

Hattons went head to head with Bachmann when they became a manufacturer in their own right , particularly with the 66, which is a breach of Bachmann's terms of supply. The reasons for Hornby's split from Rails are less clear - it could be their aggressive discounting policy, or their descision to also go head to head with Hornby as a manufacturer, or to protect their dealer network from aggressive box shifting, or all of those, or none of those. Whatever the reasons either the two largest manufacturers have made a commercial decision that they each don't need one of the largest retailers as much as the retailers thought they did, or the retailers have made a commercial decision that the risk of being left without supplies is worth it, whatever 'it' is.

LMB is right, Bachmann in particular don't need Hattons as they simply divert product to their other dealers, or cokld even sell direct should they choose to. Hornby tried direct selling, bypassing dealers and closing concessions and it didn't end well, It makes sense in a strict commercial sense but you lose all sorts of intangibles such as goodwill, visibility in the market, impulse purchases from people who only went in for a packet of track pins, fre advice to prospective purchasers etc. The new/current regime at Hornby took the opposite view to their predecessors so clearly there are arguments both ways.

But whatever the advantages of a dealer network, dealers actively working against you to grab manufacturing market share is something manufacturers don't need.
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

IAN1955
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby IAN1955 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:55 am

I wanted to buy a few R603 pieces of track, Rails are selling boxes of 24 at £95 and no singles, now if you click on the link below, it is Amazon site, lick on the product then below the description it says go to Hornby store,click on that and i was amazed.

1 piece is being sold for which then goes to Hornby, they are selling for £2.52 so for a pack of 24 it comes to £60.48 so form your own opinion.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-R601-Do ... 175&sr=8-3

Buelligan
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby Buelligan » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:50 pm

IAN1955 wrote:I wanted to buy a few R603 pieces of track, Rails are selling boxes of 24 at £95 and no singles, now if you click on the link below, it is Amazon site, lick on the product then below the description it says go to Hornby store,click on that and i was amazed.

1 piece is being sold for which then goes to Hornby, they are selling for £2.52 so for a pack of 24 it comes to £60.48 so form your own opinion.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-R601-Do ... 175&sr=8-3


The amazon link is for Hornby double straights. On the Hornby site R603 long straights are £5.25, so £126 for a pack of 24...

IAN1955
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby IAN1955 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:44 pm

Mea culpa, cannot read properly

Mike Parkes
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby Mike Parkes » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:51 pm

luckymucklebackit wrote:Why on earth Hornby (and Bachmann) don't match the boxshifters prices and cut out the middle man altogether I don't know. For example, the new A2/2 and A2/3 Pacifics are available to preorder on the Hornby website at £189.99, delivery is £4.98
There is no postage on orders over £50 including pre-orders.

luckymucklebackit wrote:Whats left of the Hobby shop network you mean, the big box shifters have pretty much seen to them.

Still plenty of shops about although some are more lucky than others in their immediate locality
https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/stockists/england/
and
http://news.bachmann.co.uk/find-a-retailer/

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mattmay05
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby mattmay05 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:48 pm

From what I understand.. Its Rails cutting Hornby... Which is now a legal matter between the 2, not sure what over but keep seeing mention of prices... Possibly hornby selling under what the retailers are.
The Bachmann and Hattons situation is different as Hattons became a manufacturer no issue there it was when they became a supplier to other retailers which broke the T&Cs.
Last edited by mattmay05 on Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

21C1
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby 21C1 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:54 am

Had this email from Rails yesterday:

I am writing to you with regards to any outstanding Hornby items you have on order with us.
We regret to inform you that after over 35 years of trading with Hornby, we are unable to fulfil any orders for forthcoming release or out of stock Hornby products.
We would like you to know that we wanted to continue selling Hornby products and Rails believed that our issues could be resolved amicably, however after reaching out to the Hornby directors on several occasions we were informed by email that our account was terminated with immediate effect.

Not Rails at all.

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Lysander
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Re: RAILS of Sheffield and Hornby

Postby Lysander » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:38 am

But with respect 21C!, that statement reveals nothing. It's what sits behind it that matters, and we are not going to be told those details.

I'm not really sure that this thread can go any further, beyond general comments, as all that can be aired is speculation, some wild, some more rational.

Tony
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