Southern passenger train question

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muggins
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Southern passenger train question

Postby muggins » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 pm

I now have a longer storage siding on my layout, and when I'm in early BR mode, it's occupied by "the excursion train". That's 6 x assorted blood 'n' custard Mk1 carriages behind a K3, and it just "passes through" from time to time simply because I like watching it.

I now need to start saving for an equivalent train for when I'm in 1930-1940 Southern Railway mode, so would very much appreciate suggestions for a suitable loco and carriages. The only specific requirements are a tender loco which doesn't have traction tyres, which is generally reckoned to be a good slow runner on DC, and which isn't an N Class ('cos I already have one). And for the carriages, all that matters is that they're proper SR green (not malachite!), and a rake of 5 (maybe 6) of them is plausible for the period. A brake at each end of the rake would be a bonus if that's appropriate, but it's not essential.

ETA At the moment, my Southern coaching stock consists of 3 x Bachmann birdcage and 3 x Hornby 58' Maunsell rebuilt LSWR, so the ones I'm hoping to add need to be of similar standard.

Bigmet
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby Bigmet » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:25 pm

The obvious loco is a King Arthur (Hornby). Never owned one myself but have decoder fitted one, and it was a fine runner from dead slow; and it's a cracker for appearance seemed to be the general perception when it came on the market.

Hornby for Maunsell corridor stock too.

As ever you may be scratching around to find loco and coaches in your required livery...

muggins
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby muggins » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:09 pm

Cheers Bigmet. I know this is going to sound silly, but in much the same way that Spam Cans just don't ring my chimes, alas I couldn't be doing with an N15. Lovely-looking loco, but for some reason I can't handle that 8-wheel tender. And I do realise I'm not making this any easier!

Whatever, off now to mug up on Maunsell corridor stock ...

Bigmet
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby Bigmet » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:18 pm

Does it help that a batch were built with regular six wheel tenders? There's one of the best name options in among them too, Halibut Fishcake.

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/n15class_dat.html

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flying scotsman123
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby flying scotsman123 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:45 pm

You may find this thread on RMWebuseful for coaching sets.
King Arthurs did indeed have 6 wheel tenders, although I'm not sure if the latest Hornby release did one, if they did they're not so easy to come by. One could be pinched from an N class if you chose carefully as some were very similar, but some weren't!
Other locos that spring to mind include Lord Nelsons and the very snazzy LBSCR atlantic, neither of which have traction tyres AFAIK. If it weren't for that I'd add the schools and even the T9 to the list too.
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muggins
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby muggins » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:45 pm

Thanks very much gents. Hmmm ... Hornby's Lord Nelson is a fine-looking thing. Would that actually look kosher with only 5 or 6 carriages behind it though? I wonder ...

ETA - I'm seeing Hornby Maunsell coaches described as either "SR Green" or "SR Olive". Am I right in assuming that by "SR Green" they mean malachite?

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BrightonMan
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby BrightonMan » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:23 am

muggins wrote:ETA - I'm seeing Hornby Maunsell coaches described as either "SR Green" or "SR Olive". Am I right in assuming that by "SR Green" they mean malachite?

In my experience 'SR Green' can mean either olive or malachite, seems to depend on who's doing the describing! As for the loco, I would go for either a Schools or a T9, both made by Hornby. I used to have a T9 (in BR livery) and it was a lovely slow runner.

muggins
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby muggins » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:54 pm

BrightonMan wrote:In my experience 'SR Green' can mean either olive or malachite, seems to depend on who's doing the describing!

Quite. That's why I'm asking which one it is when it's Hornby doing the describing :)

BrightonMan wrote:As for the loco, I would go for either a Schools or a T9, both made by Hornby.

But unless I'm mistaken, both of those have traction tyres, and as I said in my OP, I can't be doing with traction tyres :(

UrbanHermit
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby UrbanHermit » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:59 am

Lord Nelsons also had eight-wheel tenders.

Are you sure you can't overcome this eight-wheel tender thing? As Bigmet says, an N15 is the obvious choice for what you have in mind. Plus, I have one, and it's a real looker and probably the sweetest runner I own.
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Bigmet
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby Bigmet » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:43 pm

Then what about 0-6-0s, the usual fallback when passenger traction was in short supply for summer extras traffic. I know the C class did not prosper for you, so how about Hornby's 700 'Black Motor'? Sweet runner by general account.

Wayward thought, how 'Southern' does this have to be? Trains on the Slumberset and Dosiness Joint Railway had trains and traction from both partners. Of its own stock there's the 7F 2-8-0 from Bachmann, all Midland in appearance, very useful on the summer trains. Other Midland types on this line, traction tyre free from Bachmann, such as the 4P and 4F too; and all with six wheel tenders.

muggins
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby muggins » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:30 pm

UrbanHermit wrote:Are you sure you can't overcome this eight-wheel tender thing?

I'm trying. The Wife says I need counselling ...

Bigmet wrote: ... how about Hornby's 700 'Black Motor'? Sweet runner by general account.

It's a possible, although The Wife says whatever I get should be green

Bigmet wrote:Wayward thought, how 'Southern' does this have to be?

That's precisely what I was thinking yesterday. I take your point about the S&D 2-8-0 but AFAIC that's simply too many wheels for the present layout.

It's looking more and more like I need to just get over the 8-wheel tender thing. I doubt I could get therapy on the NHS, and the purchase price of a Lord Nelson wouldn't buy me much of it going private, so the solution's pretty much starng me in the face. Fortunately I'm in for a long wait until the funds have built up to the necessary level ...

Bigmet
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby Bigmet » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:17 pm

muggins wrote:...The Wife says whatever I get should be green...

Yes, I have a specimen of this problem. There are certain things she likes, and one of them is Pullman cars. Happily these are fully legit for my ECML interest, but she has now (with my skilful guidance toward the most appropriate) purchased rather more than the layout can justify. But not to worry, we used a train worth as part of the Christmas decorations in the house last year. But back on subject.

We can stretch things a little if your time frame includes 1940s. It was discovered that the best 'goes anywhere' 4-6-0 available in the UK was the LNER B12/3 rebuilt from the Stratford 1500 class 4-6-0. It was light for its class 4P power rating, very compact with inside cylinders and a short tender, all of which meant that there were few places it could not operate, and came fitted with vacuum and air brake for maximum flexibility; and was selected for ambulance train traffic during WWII as a result which saw members of this class down South, well away from the usual ex-GER - with some LNER southern area excursions - beat.

It comes in a very lovely GREEN too, and no less significantly the current Hornby has to be one of the finest steam models they have ever offered. It's on trial for this role, which is why it happens to be pootling about on the Southern...

muggins
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby muggins » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:50 pm

Oh crikey.

Now you've gone and done it.

I managed a cab ride in one of those once ...

:roll:

Bigmet
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby Bigmet » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:08 pm

I'll pour a tanker load of fuel on the fire then.

The exterior appearance and overall dimensions are bob on; really fine features include the deep cab footplate projection to the tender representing the wooden construction used by Stratford; and the so beautiful flare of the spokes into the projecting hub bosses of the driving wheels.
The sole real improvement I could make to appearance was to substitute a set of Stephen Poole GER pattern bogie wheels, formerly deployed under a 'much modified' Triang-Hornby B12. (Always hang on to your good old stuff, wish I had bought a second set in the long ago, they could enhance the D16/3...)
The drive is to Hornby's best standard. Added a light spring to the front bogie; why Hornby don't routinely fit these to the bogies of their steam models mystifies me.
The body is majority metal, so the loco is heavy at 340g, with the weight well balanced over the driving wheels.
The model has better traction than any current 4-6-0 model I have sampled - though I haven't had the chance to test the recent LN or an S15, and these may well be likewise gruntworthy if Hornby have similarly packed the weight in.
The loco runs quietly with a smooth gliding action, quite captivating.

I keep on substituting it for the standard power (either a 'bleedin' Bongo' or a B17) on the Cambridge services, for the joy of seeing it run...

muggins
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Re: Southern passenger train question

Postby muggins » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:52 pm

Bigmet wrote:... The loco runs quietly with a smooth gliding action, quite captivating.

And so it should, what with two flywheels 'n' all. Apparently.

In an effort to find a good reason not to buy one (or preferably several good reasons not to buy one), I waded through the B12 thread on Pedants' Corner. There, in amongst all the par-for-the-course arguing about how inaccurate the LNER green obviously is*, I did notice one comment about the running qualities which is perhaps a red flag of sorts. One bloke reckons it's a bit high-geared. That plus the fact that I've been unable to locate a video of it running at normal scale speeds prompts me to seek an opinion on this from your good self.

(* Ignoring of course a multitude of factors including individual colour perception, the colour of the light falling on the model, scale effect, colour calibration of screens used to view reference pictures on, accuracy of printed reference pictures, inherent differences between lead paint using pre-war pigments and modern synthetic paints, layers of varnish etc etc - not forgetting of course the simple fact that even if two locomotives did by sheer fluke leave Doncaster the exact same shade of green, they'd inevitably be different six months later.)


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