Triang EMU

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VELOSSEMBLY
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Triang EMU

Postby VELOSSEMBLY » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:01 pm

Having just joined this Forum as an old (or should it be born-again?) modeller I would be interested to know if other railway modellers are familiar with what I've experienced with a very elderly Triang EMU. I only acquired this unit recently, off ebay of course, and found that the motor/drive line runs perfectly when wired direct to a power supply. The trouble starts when the unit is placed on the track, whereupon the EMU performs like a jack rabbit, with arcs and sparks leaping between the pickup bogies and the Code 100 nickel silver rails.

A helpful on-line dealer advised that this behaviour could be caused by dirt trapped between the "teeth" of the bogie wheels. These were milled originally by Triang in order to improve traction, so I've been told. Cleaning the wheels made no difference at all so I thought, with nothing to lose, I would try turning off the milling on my lathe. Ha! my tungsten carbide cutting tool made no impression on the milling and I'm now wondering what on earth those wheels are made from.

Has anyone else achieved success with a Triang EMU by removing the milling? If so, did you have to grind the milling off? I don't have any diamond tooling, other than a grindstone dresser.

BB.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Triang EMU

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:13 pm

The fact that all these years later that milling is still there is down to what was done to them after milling. Triang case hardened the wheels, they are pretty much bullet proof. You might manage to grind down the flanges but getting rid of the milled ridges is almost impossible. Many years ago my late father who really knew his way around the toolroom took some in to work and tried the same, they arrived back home a week or two later with some nicely turned brass replacements, Rovex had case hardened them, the guy in the lab reckoned to military standards. I've bought replacements from Ultrascale, but they only produce to order and lead times can be long.
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mossdp
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Re: Triang EMU

Postby mossdp » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:03 pm

The flange depth of the EMU is too deep and bumps along the chairs that hold the rails in place on the track. Later versions of Tri-ang models that used the same type of wheels had slightly less deep flanges and do not bump along the track. The final version of these wheels had smooth wheels (never fitted to the EMU). Possibly at the same time, the brass gear was replaced by a plastic one. Any of these versions with the shallower flanges work with the EMU including the smooth variety. You may still find that the flange width rather than the depth jams in some Peco points but should work fine with Hornby ones.

I turn down the too deep flanges on these wheels. I use a worm/wheel puller to remove the wheel on the insulated side with the plastic bush and put the axle with the other wheel and gear still attached in an electric drill and reduce the depth of the flange by holding a coarse grinding wheel stationary against it. I have done it many times. I put the wheel with a plastic bush on a spare axle and repeat the process. You have to go gently with this one otherwise, the heat will melt the plastic bush. I replace the wheel on the axle with the worm/wheel puller used a pusher to reassemble nice and square.

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SRman
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Re: Triang EMU

Postby SRman » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:17 am

Bufferstop wrote:The fact that all these years later that milling is still there is down to what was done to them after milling. Triang case hardened the wheels, they are pretty much bullet proof. You might manage to grind down the flanges but getting rid of the milled ridges is almost impossible. Many years ago my late father who really knew his way around the toolroom took some in to work and tried the same, they arrived back home a week or two later with some nicely turned brass replacements, Rovex had case hardened them, the guy in the lab reckoned to military standards. I've bought replacements from Ultrascale, but they only produce to order and lead times can be long.



A friend tried to turn some of these wheels for me many years ago. After blunting three lathe tools, including a tungsten-carbide one, he did some research and found that Triang had included some war surplus armour plate in the metal mix too.

b308
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Re: Triang EMU

Postby b308 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:53 am

You can get replacement wheelsets for those old Triang bogies. You may need to search around on Ebay and Google to find them, though. From what I remember the wheels are exactly the same as the early Triang MetroCam (101?) DMU. \probably the easiest, though not cheapest, way to do it!

Bigmet
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Re: Triang EMU

Postby Bigmet » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:28 am

Another alternative is to sell the unit on for whatever you can get, and buy something tooled in the last twenty years (suggest Bachmann's 2-EPB if it's a short suburban EMU you want).

Mechanism design and prototype fidelity of RTR OO leapt ahead from 1999, when standard technique in HO began to be applied to RTR OO models in earnest. (All tooling and manufacture in China by contract manufacturing outfits that had built up experience in HO, mainly for the US market.) What formerly required kit or even scratch building to achieve in the way of good appearance and performance on track, became available RTR. It depends what your interests are, whether this appeals: it certainly does to me as it means only the rare 'character' items have to be made; the 'donkey work' is done by the RTR manufacturers, of whom we have a fair selection now.

VELOSSEMBLY
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Re: Triang EMU

Postby VELOSSEMBLY » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:12 am

I can confirm that excess wheel flange diameter is not the cause; well, not on my Code 100 PECO track anyway. The degree of hardness of the milled wheel rims is certainly extreme. I had similar comments from an engineering works about my Velocette gears so maybe that was a 1950s thing.

Since I have the technology, I shall pull the wheels off the axles and fit alternatives; if not available I can turn up replacements in brass. As for coming up to date with model EMU production: apart from the cost of new kit, half the fun for me is restoring these old models. Why else would I have upwards of 50 PECO "Wonderful Wagons" queued up for repair?

I'm not that bothered about originality; my old Hornby-Dublo tank and bolster wagons are now fitted with Alan Gibson bearings and Dapol wheelsets but the mod is entirely reversible. The difference in running is unbelievable and I don't have to change the couplings either.

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. BB.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Triang EMU

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:38 pm

I had similar comments from an engineering works about my Velocette gears so maybe that was a 1950s thing.

That's interesting, I wonder if an abundance of recycled scrap military gear lead to the need for case hardening, later productions using plated brass or diecast and nickel silver certainly were better for running qualities.
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