Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

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muggins
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Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby muggins » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:43 pm

I seem to remember that in the late 1950s I used to see fairly regularly 4-wheel parcels vans or whatever they were either at the front or back of a passenger train, or sometimes in a freight train. But I never knew what they were called, so now when I'm wondering about getting one for my railway, I don't know what to search for!

So ... what would those vans have been, what would have been carried in them, and are any available in 00 RTR?

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6C
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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby 6C » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:13 pm

Sounds like CCTs - Covered Carriage Trucks.

Used by all pre-Nationalisation companies - but also built by BR - give the above a google image search...should see what you saw then.

The Southern used them famously...

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6C
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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby 6C » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:14 pm

Sounds like CCTs - Covered Carriage Trucks.

Used by all pre-Nationalisation companies - but also built by BR - give the above a google image search...should see what you saw then.

The Southern used them famously...

Pete
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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby GeoFF03 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:59 pm

The Southern Railway also had PMV's (Parcel & Miscellaneous Vans). Bachmann do the PMV and the BR Mk1 CCT, while Hornby have made LNER and LMS CCT's.

muggins
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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby muggins » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:49 am

Thanks gents. So other than a carriage that needed covering, what would typically be carried in a CCT?

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GeoFF03
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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby GeoFF03 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:08 am

The CCT (Covered Carriage Truck) was originally built for transporting motor vehicles in the pre-motorway era. They were used by BR for Motor Rail services in the early days before being replaced with stock with greater capacity, as they could only carry two or three cars.

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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby b308 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:12 am

I started on the railways in 2000 and always remember the CCT in the bay platform at Oxford (the rail connection had been severed by then if I remember rightly) alongside a GUV. They've gone now with the building of the Chiltern platforms. Anyone know if they were preserved?

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Bigmet
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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby Bigmet » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:19 am

muggins wrote:So other than a carriage that needed covering, what would typically be carried in a CCT?

Any load that would fit that the railway needed to move under cover at passenger train speed. The specific capability of the CCT over a 'parcels van' was the end loading access of a drop ramp and full width doors, enabling anything on wheels to be loaded from a dock, a facility once available at practically any staffed station.

In terms of rolling stock survival from the pre-nationalisation period 'Non-Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock' (NPCCS) was among the last to be withdrawn from network service; in particular the Southern Railways very distinctive long four wheel types and the LNER's bogie vans (referred to by many as 'pigeon vans' from their regular use in taking racing pigeons to a release point, which can justify their arrival almost anywhere) still wandering about all over the system a good ten years into the BR blue period.

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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:22 pm

CCTs are the grandchildren of the trucks provided in the early days for the nobility to have their personal horsedrawn carriages loaded onto the end of a train. Once they had been persuaded by the provision of more luxurious special saloons to get out of their buggies and enter the train the original flat bed wagons with end loading ramps were given an overall tunnel like cover and the line of descent to the CCT was begun. When early automobiles took the place of horse-drawn contraptions the covered carriage truck was just the thing for horseless carriages. They were a very versatile form of van because bulky and heavy items could be loaded into them via the end doors and loading ramps rather than the struggles with ropes and timber to get the stuff loaded from the platform, and being built to passenger stock running standards they could be attached to any passenger train going in the right direction, rather than forwarding to the marshalling yards and pickup goods trains. Presumably there was a time when the private salloon, a horse box and carriage truck were all attached to a train so that the carriage, driver and horse could travel by the same train as his lordship.
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muggins
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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby muggins » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:47 pm

Thank you once again, gentlemen.

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Re: Four-wheel parcels vans (or whatever!)

Postby luckymucklebackit » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:15 pm

The 4 wheel trucks became less and less used on passenger trains as the trains became faster as they were limited to ar maximum speed of 70mph. It was common to see a "club" symbol in the working time table that denoted no 4 wheel stock to be conveyed in that service.

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