Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Discuss model railway topics and news that do not fit into other sections.
Pennine MC
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby Pennine MC » Thu May 30, 2019 11:40 am

Buelligan wrote:The mother of one of the boys said 'He's already been punished, I've confiscated his phone and X Box and he's been grounded'. As if that makes it all ok.


Of course it doesn't make it OK, but I find the general air of sanctimony here a little distasteful. Is everyone who's commented here a perfect parent whose offspring never did a thing wrong?

The way I read the news item, she seemed a normal respectable lady who was probably as bewildered as we are by her son's actions. The father was also clearly distressed.

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dubdee1000
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby dubdee1000 » Thu May 30, 2019 12:59 pm

See, that's the problem with criminals - they often come from seemingly perfectly good homes

b308
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby b308 » Thu May 30, 2019 3:23 pm

Pennine MC wrote:
Buelligan wrote:The mother of one of the boys said 'He's already been punished, I've confiscated his phone and X Box and he's been grounded'. As if that makes it all ok.


Of course it doesn't make it OK, but I find the general air of sanctimony here a little distasteful. Is everyone who's commented here a perfect parent whose offspring never did a thing wrong?

The way I read the news item, she seemed a normal respectable lady who was probably as bewildered as we are by her son's actions. The father was also clearly distressed.


The problem I've got with it (and I suspect many other have as well) is that it took her the best part of the week to do and say this. Had she said on the Sunday when it hit the headlines that they were all very sorry and this is what I've done then it would have carried some weight. Trouble is by the time she spoke (and that was after a DM reporter went round and pestered her) the story was already global and the justgiving fund into tens of thousands and so was the universal condemnation of the act. It came across to me as someone wishing to try to dig themselves and their kid out of a rather large hole. What she probably thought initially is that they are a bunch of old gits playing at trains and it'll all blow over as they'll be ridiculed, as it happens she got it wrong and had to back pedal fast. I could be wrong but if it'd been me in her position I'd have been apologising on the Sunday morning, not the Thursday for it to sound the least bit genuine...

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sparkhill
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby sparkhill » Thu May 30, 2019 8:32 pm

No pity from me for the parents, its a parental obligation to show children right from wrong something his parents failed at miserably yes :twisted: I wasn't a saint when I was a kid but there is no way I or any normal child would go and smash a load of model railway layouts to pieces, to be honest in my 75 years on this planet I have never heard of kids doing that much damage to anyone's property, I may be an old so and so but I know kids that do stupid things like that continue to do a lot worse, you just have to ask yourself how would you feel if someone broke into your home and smashed your layout :?:
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Peterm
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby Peterm » Fri May 31, 2019 12:25 am

sparkhill wrote: you just have to ask yourself how would you feel if someone broke into your home and smashed your layout :?:

I know how they'd feel if I caught 'em!
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Pennine MC
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby Pennine MC » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:36 pm

b308 wrote:
Pennine MC wrote:
Buelligan wrote:The mother of one of the boys said 'He's already been punished, I've confiscated his phone and X Box and he's been grounded'. As if that makes it all ok.


Of course it doesn't make it OK, but I find the general air of sanctimony here a little distasteful. Is everyone who's commented here a perfect parent whose offspring never did a thing wrong?

The way I read the news item, she seemed a normal respectable lady who was probably as bewildered as we are by her son's actions. The father was also clearly distressed.


The problem I've got with it (and I suspect many other have as well) is that it took her the best part of the week to do and say this. Had she said on the Sunday when it hit the headlines that they were all very sorry and this is what I've done then it would have carried some weight. Trouble is by the time she spoke (and that was after a DM reporter went round and pestered her) the story was already global and the justgiving fund into tens of thousands and so was the universal condemnation of the act. It came across to me as someone wishing to try to dig themselves and their kid out of a rather large hole. What she probably thought initially is that they are a bunch of old gits playing at trains and it'll all blow over as they'll be ridiculed, as it happens she got it wrong and had to back pedal fast. I could be wrong but if it'd been me in her position I'd have been apologising on the Sunday morning, not the Thursday for it to sound the least bit genuine...


You may well have something there, although again shock affects people differently; it's hard enough for us to comprehend the scale of what was done, let alone someone with no real concept of the hobby. But without personal knowledge of the folk involved, I don't suppose we'd ever know

sparkhill wrote:No pity from me for the parents, its a parental obligation to show children right from wrong something his parents failed at miserably yes :twisted:


No pity intended from me, my post was more of an observation. There's more to parenting than just telling somebody what's right and what's wrong

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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:21 pm

Pennine MC wrote:Of course it doesn't make it OK, but I find the general air of sanctimony here a little distasteful. Is everyone who's commented here a perfect parent whose offspring never did a thing wrong?

The way I read the news item, she seemed a normal respectable lady who was probably as bewildered as we are by her son's actions. The father was also clearly distressed.


Or even closer to home, is everyone who's commented innocent of all offence themselves?

Those boys are now going to get what the law prescribes, and it won't be any fun for them for that night of excess, and will likely stay with them for life. There are significant limitations once you have a criminal record, as one young chap who worked for me discovered, having similarly done a stupid thing as a teen while in drink. No, he would not be admitted to the USA so couldn't take up a significant educational opportunity; and that's far from the only country that makes such stipulations.

IAN1955
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby IAN1955 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm

I cannot condone any acts a vandalism of any age and for what they have done they should have the book thrown at them, however because of their ages they are classed as juveniles and will be dealt with accordingly and probably leniently if today's do gooders have their way.

Now as for the future, if they do not get a custodial sentence under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, they after a period of time will not have to declare crimes committed as juveniles.

If they do get a custodial sentence (under age of 18 ) then the rules change again, to publish this on here would be endless, if you are interested google http://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio ... s-act-1974.

I know the senior members on here will be up in arms and I agree, however this is the law of the land.

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sparkhill
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby sparkhill » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:32 pm

I judge these destructive little critters by the standards of my own children of which I had the pleasure of being a Father to Five Boys and Five Girls, my kids were not angels and thankfully they have all grown up to be responsible adults, they have given my Wife and I a total of 18 Grandchildren and two Great Grandchildren, never in our family history did any of them vandalise someone else's property, I am not claiming to be a perfect parent as I like most Mums and Dads wish they had done some things different but we did teach our kids Right from Wrong and yes there is more to parenting but teaching them Right from Wrong but is a great place to start, I do hope the parents of these culprits are made to pay for the damage done and yes I do hope that the vandals get the punishment they deserve, taking a phone and tablet computer plus grounding kids in their teens is a joke its the type of thing that a parent would do to a seven year old, its no wonder kids grow up out of control.
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby RailwayRobbo » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:07 am

Final total = £107,947.

61xx
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby 61xx » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:41 pm

George Stein wrote:Very sad. In the USA it is usually expected that the club/primary host for an event like this will provide an overnight watchman (volunteer club member with an airhorn, cellphone, etc. {and being the USA,sometimes a gun}). While I don't support the gun bit, I believe it prudent for any trademen or visiting clubs to inquire as to security before comitttng to attend.. Locked at night doesn't cut it. Overnight watchman is essential these sad days.

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I totally agree with you. I can't understand why this isn't the norm here. It is madness to leave a set up exhibition unattended. I wouldn't leave anything of mine in such a situation..

Rob

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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:58 pm

The fact that a theft took place at one of the locations for the Great Central's model event, whilst security staff were present, emphasises the need for a representative of the exhibitors to be present when anyone other than security staff is allowed in, and when security staff alone are in charge, only they should be allowed in. You can't expect them to know who should and shouldn't be doing what they are doing when they are doing it.
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Flashbang
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby Flashbang » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:57 pm

61xx wrote:
George Stein wrote:Very sad. In the USA it is usually expected that the club/primary host for an event like this will provide an overnight watchman (volunteer club member with an airhorn, cellphone, etc. {and being the USA,sometimes a gun}). While I don't support the gun bit, I believe it prudent for any trademen or visiting clubs to inquire as to security before comitttng to attend.. Locked at night doesn't cut it. Overnight watchman is essential these sad days.

George
North Carolina

I totally agree with you. I can't understand why this isn't the norm here. It is madness to leave a set up exhibition unattended. I wouldn't leave anything of mine in such a situation..

Rob

While i totally find the vandalism abhorrent and totally mindless and stupid by some drunken youths who need the goal keys thrown away. The vandalism act was really very unusual. Unfortunately press coverage and such coverage on public areas can probably only make matters worse in the future for all events!
However, I really do wonder how many of the people who replied to this topic actually have any direct hands on experience of running a local exhibition? From first hand experience around 40% to 50% (more if you're lucky) club members will offer their help on the day(s) of an exhibition. Some then will not undertake specific duties such as car park or front desk duties! The rest, often the actual committee, run the event in the day time. As for getting a club member to stay for some 14 + hours over night in the hall(s) is all but impossible! You're looking for cover from close of event to opening the next day, some 14 to 16 hours. Its hard enough to get volunteers in the daytime yet alone at night and possibly for two nights - Friday and Saturday where a two day event is arranged.
Employing a "security guard" is really not possible for the smaller/medium sized clubs, as they just can't afford the additional expense, that cost would mean probably no actual income from the exhibition would be obtained and it would possibly run at a loss. Resulting in no further exhibitions!

My own club with around 40 members can just about manage some 18-20 club members per day to steward the event (In fact we ask other local clubs to help out each day!). We take out some £85K to £95K layout insurance for the two days plus £5M public liability insurance plus hall hire costs. All this before a single person has paid for admittance! We host around 18 layouts and 12 trade stands so not a large exhibition but never the less its not small.

Give a "Watchman" with a mobile phone and they ringing the police / emergency service they can probably expect today a response next day, if lucky, unless life is threatened!
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sparkhill
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby sparkhill » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:16 pm

Flashbang Wrote

Unfortunately press coverage and such coverage on public areas can probably only make matters worse in the future for all events!




How true, here in Australia when the warmer weather arrives the TV news lets us all know that the Bush Fire season is about to start, you can bet your life that every time they do that over the next few days fires will be lit some of which have catastrophic results, some things are better kept quiet.
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Nobby

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Peterm
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Re: Wanton Vandalism of layouts

Postby Peterm » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:20 am

sparkhill wrote:Flashbang Wrote

Unfortunately press coverage and such coverage on public areas can probably only make matters worse in the future for all events!




How true, here in Australia when the warmer weather arrives the TV news lets us all know that the Bush Fire season is about to start, you can bet your life that every time they do that over the next few days fires will be lit some of which have catastrophic results, some things are better kept quiet.

How true, not just about scrotes lighting fires, but I also remember that back in the early days of my driving buses in Brisbane drivers would occasionally be assaulted. Nothing went to the media, then some highly educated fool decided it would be a good idea to publicise it... up went the assaults.
Pete.


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