I need help...

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Buelligan
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I need help...

Postby Buelligan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:56 pm

So, since getting my son a railway set for Christmas, and spending time playing with it with him and his older brother, I've rediscovered my love of model railways, more specifically, Gresley A4's, though I have bought a couple of other engines.

At Christmas I owned 1 working engine, my old Mallard, my interest in Mallard and A4's has now turned to obsession! I now own 8 A4's.
My original Mallard, unboxed, unknown year, it was bought 2nd hand in around 1996-1997, tender driven, don't know if there's a way to date them?
It's been joined by, from left to right in the photos below:
Quicksilver (Silver, DCC Ready)
Golden Shuttle (Garter Blue, Hornby DCC Ready)
Seagull (Garter Blue, Hornby, got a price of £24.99 from Beatties on the box)
Miles Beevor (Garter Blue, Bachmann)
Woodcock (BR Experimental Blue, Hornby, pretty sure the certificate said it was exclusive to Beatties)
Golden Shuttle (Wartime Black, Bachmann, Rails of Sheffield exclusive)

And also not pictured with these as its had to be well hidden from she who would go mental if she knew I'd bought it, an as new Hornby live steam Mallard.

I've also bought a couple of other types, a Triang Princess Royal, though that was as a present for my Dad, and unusually for me, I found diesel I like, its a Lima 'Western Enterprise'.

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Paul-H
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Re: I need help...

Postby Paul-H » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:16 am

Nice collection

What is it with Railway Modellers and their OCD ;) oh how I pray for one day to have a hobby that does not turn out to be an expensive obsession and why is there a model shop between me and my bank, so I keep getting confused and depositing my money in the wrong place :)

Hornby and Bachmann ext should be ashamed of themselves praying on the mentally ill like they do 8)

Paul

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TimberSurf
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Re: I need help...

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:23 am

At least your obsession is only with one loco! Some have the same obsession, but not limited to the one :lol:
I have two very large cardboard boxes of bridges :?:
I have been collecting stock over many years for my planned large layout and want many varied long rakes, I have recently catalogued the wagons and coaches and the count is over 1,200 :shock: . I dare not catalogue the locos, as I am scared the count will not be double figures, but may be three figures :oops:
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Bigmet
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Re: I need help...

Postby Bigmet » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:17 am

Oh yes you do need help. Assuming that is that you want to run them.

The problem you might have is that there is little authentic from RTR to run those A4s with! The relatively little in Gresley design gangwayed coaches focusses on stock not so common in the premium trains that the A4's were built to operate. There's no models of streamlined trains, and of Hornby's Gresley stock only the buffet car and sleeper are the more modern end vestibule vehicles built for the fast long distance services.

The only present 'complete train' answer is the 1928 'Queen of Scots' all steel Pullman cars. Hornby have produced a good selection to build an authentic train from, and these coaches are to their current 'best' standard. Makes a very handsome train indeed, and is representative of the premium fare trains that these expensive locos were built to haul. This really worked for the LNER BTW, because these trains were the Concorde of their day, and they paid for their construction - locos and stock - from profit on the fares within months of introduction.

(The way many of us get out of this hole of 'little suitable stock' is kit building.)

The Black liveried A4 (and also filthy dirty Garter Blue A4s) can go with freight of course . The pacifics pulled huge loads of 'everything and anything' during the war, and there is a plentiful choice of wagon models to make up a freight train.

We almost all have an OCD in this hobby as you can tell from the above: mine is 'authentic loco and stock combinations'.

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Mountain
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Re: I need help...

Postby Mountain » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:42 am

The one you would like to date. I assume it is "Seagull" or "Mallard"? when you said tender drive. Well, "Mallard" came out as a new introduction in B.R. green during the1979 catalogue. Seagull came out in L.N.E.R. blue about the year after I believe as it was the second model they did. It may have been the same year as Mallard but I think it was the year after. I would say about 1980 would be an accurate date for Seagull.. Seagull had the full vallancing around the wheels while Mallard had the removed vallancing.
I believe both Mallard and Seagull were reintroduced in the 1990's but I am not quite sure when. They had slight tweaks compared to the earlier ones but they used the old moulds and were tender drive. I believe loco drive came later.
I had one of the live steam locos for a few months. I bought it for £400 which was considered cheap, though a few months later I had to sell it for £250 due to personal needs.

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End2end
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Re: I need help...

Postby End2end » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:02 pm

I just want a non LNER liveried green A4 that isn't tender driven but is DCC ready, non valanced and has better detail than Hornby's railroad version. :(
It's a minefield. :shock:
Thanks
End2end
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Mountain
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Re: I need help...

Postby Mountain » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:09 pm

I prefer loco drive myself too. Tender drive does have its place, especially with the few locos where loco drives would not be practical.

Bigmet
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Re: I need help...

Postby Bigmet » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:38 pm

Mountain wrote:...Tender drive does have its place...

It may have done, but technique is now sufficiently good that it's all but redundant in 4mm in my opinion. As a fully concealed loco drive has been provided for a RTR OO Stirling single, it would need a search among the most awkward of ancient loco designs to find the few requiring a tender drive.

Buelligan
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Re: I need help...

Postby Buelligan » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:26 am

Firstly, apologies for the long post, I've quoted and replied to most if not all of you

TimberSurf wrote:At least your obsession is only with one loco! Some have the same obsession, but not limited to the one
I have two very large cardboard boxes of bridges
I have been collecting stock over many years for my planned large layout and want many varied long rakes, I have recently catalogued the wagons and coaches and the count is over 1,200 . I dare not catalogue the locos, as I am scared the count will not be double figures, but may be three figures


I keep looking at scenery but have so managed to resist. It's the laser cut plywood bridges and stations on eBay that I keep getting tempted by. Is that 1200 individual trucks and coaches?! I think I've got about 15, maybe 30 if I include my Dads old stuff!

Bigmet wrote:Oh yes you do need help. Assuming that is that you want to run them.

The problem you might have is that there is little authentic from RTR to run those A4s with! The relatively little in Gresley design gangwayed coaches focusses on stock not so common in the premium trains that the A4's were built to operate. There's no models of streamlined trains, and of Hornby's Gresley stock only the buffet car and sleeper are the more modern end vestibule vehicles built for the fast long distance services.

The only present 'complete train' answer is the 1928 'Queen of Scots' all steel Pullman cars. Hornby have produced a good selection to build an authentic train from, and these coaches are to their current 'best' standard. Makes a very handsome train indeed, and is representative of the premium fare trains that these expensive locos were built to haul. This really worked for the LNER BTW, because these trains were the Concorde of their day, and they paid for their construction - locos and stock - from profit on the fares within months of introduction.

(The way many of us get out of this hole of 'little suitable stock' is kit building.)

The Black liveried A4 (and also filthy dirty Garter Blue A4s) can go with freight of course . The pacifics pulled huge loads of 'everything and anything' during the war, and there is a plentiful choice of wagon models to make up a freight train.

We almost all have an OCD in this hobby as you can tell from the above: mine is 'authentic loco and stock combinations'.


To be honest, I'm not overly bothered about what would've been pulled in real life, I personally like the look of the Garter blue locos with the LNER teak coaches, which I'm sure I read somewhere would've been seen at times. I don't personally like freight trains, and the cost of them puts me off, for how many you need. I know the Pullman cars you mean, I've got 3 old ones here, that were my Dads, I'm not keen on them either, though my son wants some to go with his Tornado. I'm more likely to choose coaches I like the look of rather than authenticity, I rather fancy some of the red and cream coaches to go with the black Golden Shuttle.

I went to a model exhibition at Milton Keynes today, and picked up 4 of the LNER teak coaches for £30, plastic wheels, but I'm sure they can be probably be changed to metal if I wanted to.

I read a good book about the design and development of Mallard and the A4's in general, by Don Hale.

Paul-H wrote:Nice collection

What is it with Railway Modellers and their OCD ;) oh how I pray for one day to have a hobby that does not turn out to be an expensive obsession and why is there a model shop between me and my bank, so I keep getting confused and depositing my money in the wrong place :)

Hornby and Bachmann ext should be ashamed of themselves praying on the mentally ill like they do 8)

Paul


My issue is eBay, it's too easy! Now my OCD is telling me I need each Loco in each colour...

Mountain wrote:The one you would like to date. I assume it is "Seagull" or "Mallard"? when you said tender drive. Well, "Mallard" came out as a new introduction in B.R. green during the1979 catalogue. Seagull came out in L.N.E.R. blue about the year after I believe as it was the second model they did. It may have been the same year as Mallard but I think it was the year after. I would say about 1980 would be an accurate date for Seagull.. Seagull had the full vallancing around the wheels while Mallard had the removed vallancing.
I believe both Mallard and Seagull were reintroduced in the 1990's but I am not quite sure when. They had slight tweaks compared to the earlier ones but they used the old moulds and were tender drive. I believe loco drive came later.
I had one of the live steam locos for a few months. I bought it for £400 which was considered cheap, though a few months later I had to sell it for £250 due to personal needs.


The 1 I've no idea about the age is the Mallard on the end on the left in the 1st photo. I think there's a certificate in the box with Seagull, and I'm pretty sure it has a date of 1984 on it. Though something I have just thought of is the possibility of my Mallard being renamed and renumbered before I got it. My Mallard has the full vallancing. If it was reintroduced early 90's it could be one of those as it was purchased 2nd hand around '96-'97.

I'm looking forward to giving the live steam a go, got a rolling road to try it on, bought the instruction DVD from the oo live steam club, now just need some time to hide in the garage and give it a try. I paid over the odds for it, but it's in pristine condition, still in the original mailing box etc.

End2end wrote:I just want a non LNER liveried green A4 that isn't tender driven but is DCC ready, non valanced and has better detail than Hornby's railroad version.
It's a minefield.
Thanks
End2end


I'm guessing this is the Railroad version then is it? https://www.hattons.co.uk/250815/Hornby ... etail.aspx
And are the Bachmann locos not DCC ready?

Mountain wrote:I prefer loco drive myself too. Tender drive does have its place, especially with the few locos where loco drives would not be practical.

Bigmet wrote:
Mountain wrote:...Tender drive does have its place...

It may have done, but technique is now sufficiently good that it's all but redundant in 4mm in my opinion. As a fully concealed loco drive has been provided for a RTR OO Stirling single, it would need a search among the most awkward of ancient loco designs to find the few requiring a tender drive.


I have found my loco driven engines are smoother running, and definitely better at slow speeds. Though I wouldn't not buy a loco just because it was tender driven. I intend to collect the whole set of 35, and they won't all be runners.

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TimberSurf
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Re: I need help...

Postby TimberSurf » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:12 am

Buelligan wrote:Is that 1200 individual trucks and coaches?!

Yep! Fully catalogued with every detail in a spreadsheet
Every one and its box as well (if present) is marked
Totals are:-
Freight 139
Guard 63
Mineral 39
Tank 176
Cars 11
Wagon 677
Special 13

Passenger coaches 105
:o
A small selection on display in my dining room
Displays 793.jpg

So there is plenty of hope for you yet! :lol:
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6C
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Re: I need help...

Postby 6C » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:37 pm

A serious case of Streak-itis ! :o

I only have 2 - both based on the R2784x BR version - but my layout is based in the NW of England ! :lol: so it is catching..
Pete

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alex3410
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Re: I need help...

Postby alex3410 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:52 pm

Buelligan wrote:And also not pictured with these as its had to be well hidden from she who would go mental if she knew I'd bought it, an as new Hornby live steam Mallard.


rather jealous of that, i really want one as it looks like it would be a lot of fun to run it but cant justify the cost


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