Another carriage question

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muggins
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Another carriage question

Postby muggins » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:34 pm

I should be able to remember all this stuff but alas I can't, so ... when a carriage is described as "Gresley Non-vestibuled Suburban", what does the "non-vestibuled" bit mean? And how can such a coach's vestibulelessness be determined by looking at it from the outside?

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flying scotsman123
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby flying scotsman123 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:58 pm

Vestibules are the areas of the coach at each end and sometimes in the middle where the doors are on corridor coaches where there aren't any seats. With no corridor and doors going straight into compartments there are no vestibules. Vestibulelessness is my new favourite word. :)
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Bigmet
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby Bigmet » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:01 pm

It won't have 'corridor connectors' on the vehicle ends, so the passengers cannot move from vehicle to vehicle.

Depending on which business was describing this, 'corridor' 'gangway' 'vestibule' can all mean the same thing, and also different things. We don't want this to be easy you know...

muggins
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby muggins » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:36 pm

Bigmet wrote: ... 'corridor' 'gangway' 'vestibule' can all mean the same thing, and also different things. We don't want this to be easy you know...

Quite. AFAIC though the corridor is the thing you walk down en route to a compartment, gangway is a term that a matelot might use instead of corridor, and as m'learned friend above explained, a vestibule is that part of a corridor into which the external doors open.

Erm ... I think.

Thank you, gentlemen :0

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flying scotsman123
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby flying scotsman123 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:02 pm

Sounds about right, although sometimes a gangway can refer to the corridor connection at the ends of carriages. Plus, for carriages that don't have a corridor connection but do have internal corridors (so you can access loos and other compartments in the same coach, but not the rest of the train) you might have a non-gangwayed corridor coach!
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muggins
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby muggins » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:56 am

I tried explaining this to Mrs Muggins last night ...

:roll:

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Chops
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby Chops » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:03 am

A most vestibular thread.
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Bufferstop
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:35 am

The development of passenger stock followed quite different lines in the UK compared to the US. End balconies and open saloons never caught on as the basic design was separate compartments. The companies were reluctant to introduce side corridors, as they took out at least two seats from every compartment. The absence of balconies led to the first attempts at side corridors having off centre connectors. It was the importing of Pullman cars by the Midland railway that introduced end vestibules (boxed in balconies) that led to side corridors and open saloons being tried. Early designs retained compartment doors, and had one door per two compartments on the corridor side. It was the BR Mk1 and it's immediate predecessors which did away with compartment doors, and introduced some open saloons, which were initially less popular with passengers. Even Pullmans retained one or two compartments (coupes) at the end of the saloon. I never worked out why some designs had the corridor swap sides at the central vestibule, did any designs combine this feature with multiple doors on the corridor side?
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SRman
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby SRman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:47 am

To add to the confusion, different railway companies used different terms for the same things. Reading and paraphrasing from the Wishlist Poll Team Jargon Buster, the LNER used 'vestibule' to mean a gangway connection between coaches (also known on some railways as a corridor connection).

On the other hand, the LMS used 'vestibule' to refer to an open coach, while more generally, railways used 'vestibule' to refer to a sort of lobby area where the external doors opened into a coach.

As the OP refers to a Gresley (LNER) coach, it represents a non-gangwayed coach, more often referred to as a 'suburban' coach, although many non-gangwayed coaches could be built and used for other, non-suburban purposes.

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SRman
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby SRman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:47 am

Sorry - accidental double-posting. :)

muggins
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Re: Another carriage question

Postby muggins » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:54 am

This is all good stuff! It's triggered memories of my grandmother getting really agitated upon realising that the train we were about to get onto was comprised of ancient Gresley teak non-corridor coaches, so she had no choice but to put her trust in the Lord that her bladder would hold out until we got to New Holland ...


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