Legality or moral ethics

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Bufferstop
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:07 pm

Perhaps their returns procedure isn't foolproof, most companies issue a returns number and some even send you a label to print out and stick on the package to ensure goods inward recognises why the item has come in. In my experience it's usually less efficient than their dispatch procedures.
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mahoganydog
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby mahoganydog » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:03 pm

Some while ago I received an order which had one too many of an item. I had a little fight with my conscience before calling and telling them that I had the strangest complaint they were going to get this month :lol:

The lady I spoke to thought it was funny though she didn't laugh quite so much when I asked for an honesty discount :twisted: which I didn't get..... :cry:

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Byegad
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby Byegad » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:08 pm

I now have three incorrect items sent 'in error' and two correct replacements for those items. In both cases the seller offered to send me a returns label with the replacement. They didn't! If they do they'll get the incorrect item back but as they didn't I'll give them a year and then it's mine. I have reminded both sellers about the need for a returns label.

I'm not holding my breath for a returns label when the correct third item arrives. I suspect the seller's employees can't be bothered.

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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby luckymucklebackit » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:42 pm

Dave wrote:Referring to the third party here, not the store, not GWR:

The modern atitude...

If you get something worth less than it should be, kick up a mighty stink. Demand they sort it yesterday, tell the world how they have been wronged.

If you get something worth more, it’s not your fault, keep it.


Its's true, if you get short changed in a shop you complain, if you get too much, leave shop quickly before they notice!

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alex3410
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby alex3410 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:44 pm

Byegad wrote:I'm not holding my breath for a returns label when the correct third item arrives. I suspect the seller's employees can't be bothered.


We ordered 5 boxes of A4 paper, the seller instead delivered 5 reams (1 box) after a fair amount of arguing with them Amazon stepped in and refunded us, the seller asked us to send the 5 reams back to them - i agreed but (with amazon support guys approval) insisted on them sending a prepaid label or to send a van out to collect it, after the 'mix up' over the missing boxes i didn't trust them to refund the postage costs :roll:

needless to say they never did, so we had 5 reams of paper sat here for 3 months before we gave up waiting and used it :lol:

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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby Bigmet » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:05 pm

Bufferstop wrote:Perhaps their returns procedure isn't foolproof, most companies issue a returns number and some even send you a label to print out and stick on the package to ensure goods inward recognises why the item has come in. In my experience it's usually less efficient than their dispatch procedures.

I had a very funny example of this. We once ordered a pair of bookcases from 'never knowingly undersold', paid on the credit card, booked a next day delivery slot. Somehow our order went through the system twice, and two deliveries occurred. The neighbour who let the two separate delivery teams in to make the deliveries didn't spot that this wasn't quite right, and by the time I was home the store was closed for the night.

Next day: explain situation to store, arrange collection of unwanted pair, this happened quickly and efficiently. A couple of months later, having got around to checking credit card bills I noticed a refund of the purchase cost of the two bookcases. That's what their system does with returned goods, even if you weren't meant to have received them! On contacting the store was told to forget it, as we were now in a new financial year.

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D605Eagle
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby D605Eagle » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:40 pm

What might be a stumbling block here is proving that the person received the wrong item. IIRC Hattons stuff, if sent buy courier, you do have to sign for, and that would be proof you had received it. However smaller items seem to be delivered by royal mail and aren't signed for. Remember that the onus to prove is not on the shoulders of the accused.

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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:26 pm

I give up. The store refunded my money to my PayPal account but oddly not the total amount paid. I was not compensated for my original shipping amount, only the actual cost of the item. This fiasco has now been ongoing for almost five weeks and I not only do not have the item purchased but am also out of pocket on the postage cost paid. This was an inhouse problem and yet I seem to be compensating the store for a part of their loss in the transaction. Fortunately, for me such incidences with the store are extremely rare so they still retain my loyalty but it does leave a sour taste.

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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby End2end » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:09 pm

One wonders how many other people this has happened to from that store.
As the saying goes.... money talks...bull meard walks. Personally I wouldn't waste my time nor money on them in the future.
5 weeks is a disgrace.
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby dubdee1000 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:56 pm

Byegad wrote:I now have three incorrect items sent 'in error' and two correct replacements for those items. In both cases the seller offered to send me a returns label with the replacement. They didn't! If they do they'll get the incorrect item back but as they didn't I'll give them a year and then it's mine. I have reminded both sellers about the need for a returns label.

I'm not holding my breath for a returns label when the correct third item arrives. I suspect the seller's employees can't be bothered.


I think by law, this is the correct response. I can't remember whether you have a wait a year though. You are obliged to tell the sender that you think you've been sent something by mistake. Its up to them to either collect it or send you means to send it back. If they don't take it back, it becomes yours.

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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:55 pm

End2end wrote:One wonders how many other people this has happened to from that store.
As the saying goes.... money talks...bull meard walks. Personally I wouldn't waste my time nor money on them in the future.
5 weeks is a disgrace.
Thanks
End2end


I am a little more forgiving as for me the store is the only viable outlet for my modelling needs. Downunder stores simply do not understand discounting and so local prices are generally at full recommended retail, plus the stores are not "local" and so online shopping is still needed. Also, delivery times from the UK are almost identical to local postal times so purchasing from the UK is a no brainer for me.

I have tried quite a few of the major outlets in the UK and my experiences were not that great. One major store would only accept credit card payment and in the ordering process multiple charges were placed against my card. All was resolved but I did need to pay an international transaction charge on each of the multiple "false" charges against the card. Another major dealer that I purchased four new Hornby trainpacks from basically told me to take a hike when I reported that the items were received damaged with three of the four locomotives requiring extensive repairs before making operable. Needless to say I will not purchase from either store again, even though one of the stores has many commissioned locomotives that I would have liked.

I have no issue with the store from Sheffield other than I do not know shipping costs until I receive a PayPal invoice after a purchase is made. The attraction of the Widnes store is that I know my total upfront costs before a purchase is made. The store also has extremely attractive postal charges. Oddly, in many cases postage is cheaper for me living half a world away then it is for those living on the islands surrounding the UK. In general I have found the staff to be extremely helpful, courteous and friendly. They will continue to get my support, even with the very rare hiccup occurring.
Last edited by GWR_fan on Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:11 pm

The problems caused by sending the wrong items are pretty well defined in contract laws, the seller has contracted to deliver X and sends y, you have contracted to pay the appropriate price for X. Sorting that out is not difficiult, however if there is only one of X and they have sent it to the person who ordered Y they can't send out the correct item until it is returned. I think cancelling the sale is the only sensible thing for them to do, but they should also refund the delivery charges. If X is then returned to them, they should offer you the first chance to buy it. You may no longer want it you may have made other arrangements. I can fully understand the attitude of forgetting it if the matter has gone over year end, changing anything already signed off in the end of year totals is a nightmare.
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End2end
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby End2end » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:19 pm

Of course!
Sorry GWR_Fan I forgot your in Austrailia.
If this was 25 years ago I'd say open your own model shop. :lol:
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GWR_fan
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:25 pm

End2end wrote:Of course!
Sorry GWR_Fan I forgot your in Austrailia.
If this was 25 years ago I'd say open your own model shop. :lol:
Thanks
End2end


I almost did when considering a career change. However, the seller of the model railway store convinced me that after a lifetime working outdoors that I would not find the confines of a small store ameniable to my health. Fortunately, I took notice of his advice.

rainey06au
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Re: Legality or moral ethics

Postby rainey06au » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:36 am

It's the store's mistake. Really has nothing to do with the other customer who also received the wrong goods. Their situation ultimately has nothing to do with your situation. Two separate cases.

Customer #1 received wrong goods - wasn't happy, request refund
Customer #2 received wrong goods - probably happy, just keep it

Store fixes problem with Customer #1
Store wears the financial loss with Customer #2


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