Creative Modelling.

Discuss model railway topics and news that do not fit into other sections.
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Mountain
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Creative Modelling.

Postby Mountain » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:25 pm

To try to put my thoughts into words, what if you can create a model railway that does not comply to conventional rules?
Some loose rules may provide a general theme and a rough scale.
Dream up some ideas and go creating! :)

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Bufferstop
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:16 pm

How different do you want it to be? Treacle mining on Doddlesworth Moor down to the staithes on the Great Tea Lake? Sounds like a job for Emmetman :o
Or do you mean a more normal railway but the model doesn't conform to the usual idea. Build something like the Nelevator with a different station on every shelf, and a hidden continuous loop so that the train that disappears right from the first station goes round the loop and arrives from the left into station 2.
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Mountain
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Mountain » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:51 pm

I guess there are many different ideas.

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Emettman
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Emettman » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:22 pm

Bufferstop wrote: Sounds like a job for Emmetman .



OK, I'll bite. Creativity. Let me propose, for argument. that there are two opposing goals of model railway making, both perfectly legitimate and laudable, where creativity might be considered low:
There's the strict, accurate, historical railway modeller, whose creativity (as innovation) is largely confined to finding a home for the railway and the best way to fit in fiddle yards, needed to represent the rest of the railway world.
Then there's the "just playing trains" railway modeller, where anything goes but creativity is mainly down to momentary whim rather than anything worked at to a goal. An attractive wagon or building kit spotted, and assimilated.

Moving up (or along) from the strict historical model is the well-established "might-have been" or "what if" sector. This can entail a lot of creative work, imagining a whole line's route, history, industry etc. to provide a legitimising background for an intended layout.

Along from the "just playing trains" several creative options emerge, starting with location and building material for the baseboard, and really working on the track layout to get the most operation, or best scenic effect, or most trains circling... in a given space.

My default when planning does tend to be aiming at getting the best and most varied operation, but given a specific brief I can shift that.
When looking at the 6x4 Thomas plan, I wasn't expecting a circular fiddle yard to emerge from tinkering, but it did, via small ideas accumulating.

https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=52984&p=650738#p650738

Where else for creativity?
Is it cruel to suggest that anyone who doesn't pick OO is already showing signs of it?
Narrow gauge offers variations even before moving outside OO9 and O-16.5 to other scale and gauge combinations.

Then there's fantasy: Steampunk? Steam in Middle Earth?


Sylvanian families buildings are slightly compacted 1/24, and accessories for that smaller doll's house scale can be co-opted, with the 2-3 inch figures needing 16.5 or 32 mm gauge trains. (Faller mini-playtrain?)
Cartoon-style trains? I have my Rowland Emett, but there are others, or you can invent your own.

In 1/12 scale 16.5mm gives 198mm, a 7.5" ride on garden railway: the backscene is the back of the house.
With Britain's gardens in 1:32 9mm track gives a 12" gauge: a garden centre line?

I've just had my birthday and on top of some bits to get my Z gauge display working again
(it adds motion around a 1/250 card kit of Neuschwanstein Castle)
I treated myself to a loop of z gauge shorty track.
With 45mm radius curves.

DSC01088.JPG


Here it is with a Hornby OO 0-4-0, and a modern long Z scale coach.
Outside size 165mm by 105mm. ~6.5" x 4".
Applying different common scales to the 6.5mm gauge throws up various possibilities.
It also throws up the idea of mounting the track on a plain board, say, 9" by 6", and building a range of 2-piece scenes in a variety of scales to drop inside and outside the track with the motor unit having a range of drop-over bodies to suit.

OK, so I can do ideas. Unfortunately I don't have the energy to execute many of then.
But perhaps someone else might be stimulated to have a go at one of these ideas, or one of their own.

Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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captrees
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby captrees » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:06 am

Mountain wrote:To try to put my thoughts into words, what if you can create a model railway that does not comply to conventional rules?


What rules? As a newby to this hobby, I wasn't aware that conformity is required. And I find that I have no urge to compete with those that know this subject better than me. So a lot of lateral thinking and research has gone on. The trains themselves are fixed items, 00 gauge, whatever, and need to operate in an environment created to suit the operator's ideal. Most chose realism, appropriate to their experience, and are entirely comfortable with this. But what about illusion? What are your memories of train travel? Is it all green fields and black and white cows? I think not. Trains were dirty smokey things, travelling in rain, as often as not. Stations were not clean places. Tunnels were black, forboding places. And who ever saw a clean green or blue steam engine? And the houses near the line were never posh places. They might be terraced slums, with the washing hanging out. I remember as the train got close to Euston, it seemed to speed up as if it wanted to pass through blackened ruins of civilisation, the likes of which modellers avoid too.

We can't create fog, but a dirty urban Gotham City, mostly black, lots of graffiti and rubbish, is perhaps a creative option, then?

I won't create that. A quarry is a possibility. All rock. My research has taken me through the world of railway posters, and therein is illusion. Some wonderful art deco work, with limited colours in broad swathes. Waiting for the train, looking at those posters that transported us to places like Bridlington, or the Lake District, in our dreams.

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Mountain
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Mountain » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:49 am

I guess the word creative isn't the best to use but it is one aspect to it. Emettman has the idea and has been working on very unique little projects for years.
The idea in my mind is to move away from conformity and towards individuality.
Take a look at it this way. In the past I have suggested about what good value the cheap toy trainsets are when compared to model railway prices.... and suggestions came that there was a big difference between models and toys. I do agree mechanically though detail wize I can't agree (I found some of the small details on the toy trainset was impressive!). Now what's wrong with making a layout with one of these battery trainsets?
I loved the Christmas themed layout that somebody made in here about a year or two ago. I was impressed.
Some of us go wild and wacky. I'm not saying that everyone needs to go down this route, as everybody is different and would wild and wacky be so if everyone was doing it? :lol:
For me I like to go almost down the wild and wacky but then hone it in a bit to have a step in both worlds.
I'm making decisions in my mind as to which way to go regarding my layout ideas... I dont think what I will make will be average but we shall see. I think I have the age old idea that I want to include a bit of everything but only have so much space to do so.

To sum up. From our locos and what they pull to our layouts. We dont have to conform to preconceived ideas and ways if we dont want to. We dont have to use prototypically realistic models and track. We can create our own livery or even style.
I write this to show a different form of modelling which is great fun and I find very liberating. I do shrink back on building a layout where everything is pink or purple or something like that, but why not! :lol:

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Emettman
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Emettman » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:28 am

Mountain wrote:...I'm making decisions in my mind as to which way to go..


This is a big chunk of it, and where I worry slightly about newcomers to the hobby.
If (a part of) creativity is seeing possible choices and selecting between them (for one's particular and personal reasons) do too many jump in to OO without being aware of other options (one or more of which might actually suit them better.)
Most of us older ones will have discovered this through false starts, but gaining wisdom by this route does cost time and money.

I see parallels to:
"How about getting the kids a board game for Christmas?" "I'll get a Monopoly set."
Which has been known to put some people off board games for life.

If you don't know there are much better board games out there, you are unlikely to try them!
But there are lots of ways to go.

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Faller mini PlayTrain, 32mm gauge, with Sylvanian Families driver. Outfit is plasticine as a test run.


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6ft by 6ft portable layout in G scale
Shunting layout with oval.
Radio control battery powered trains on plastic Playmobil track.
At exhibitions the public do the driving. "Interactive", I think the word is.

Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Bufferstop
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:02 pm

captrees wrote:What rules?

The only rules one has to be aware of are firstly any that affect general health and safety, particularly with regard to electricity and chemical substances. But when it comes to modelling and creativity the only rules you may be constrained by are those that apply to the creation and operation of the real thing. As blatant disregard of some of these can produce a model which will always look toy-like. There is of course the first and most important rule of all, "It's my railway and I'll run it my way", at the end of the day it has to satisfy you.
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby heda » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:32 pm

As Mountain mentioned my Polar Express based layout I thought I'd add the link, it is really just a Christmas decoration based on a £1.50 battery train set.
Dave

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52384

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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Bigmet » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:36 pm

Mountain wrote:I...We dont have to use prototypically realistic models and track. We can create our own livery or even style.
I write this to show a different form of modelling...

See, now I would argue that isn't modelling: the implication of modelling is that there is some reference reality to it. This can be either the concrete reality of past and present, or schemes that had or have the potential to be real, as in models of things and events that were realistic possibilities that did not occur, and mock ups of current prototype designs or future proposed schemes.

Producing stuff that has no foundation in any likely reality: well, personally it doesn't appeal, and there are genres- take steampunk as a good example - that are frankly ridiculous in my opinion as they have not only no grounding in reality, but are ill-founded whimsy. But then I don't really care for whimsy in any form. But if such programmes appeal, go ahead. Just don't complain if some like myself walk straight on past like it isn't there...

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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:47 pm

If you want to be creative, you can always fill in some of the gaps that the designers didn't. I started small with an 0-4-0 panier tank, but had nationalisation not happened, how long would the GWR have resisted the temptation to build a Pacific version of the King's. The LMS had a very smart design for a three car articulated DMU. Mattmay05 has shown us how to do it with his stretched Bulleid Spamcan, which seemed to gain approval from all directions. Now if someone wants something different, how about a model of the Sentinel SMU (steam multiple unit). Repatriated, from Egypt and now rusting away at Quainton.
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Emettman » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:32 pm

Bigmet wrote:... ill-founded whimsy.


Now there's a phrase I can tune into, even though I don't stand where Bigmet does on whimsy and fantasy in general.
(Model railways being a broad church, unless one branch of it starts to declare itself as the one and only true religion.)

I have seen, particularly originating from America, whimsy done (in my opinion) very badly . and whimsy done very well.
The difference? "I know it when I see it" is true but unhelpful, and I'm still working on this, now stimulated.
I think it lies in the direction of having an internal discipline and consistency to the layout without which, given the vast freedom that a whimsical or fantasy setting allows, prevents a fantasy layout is prone to unstructured chaos.

Realistic items put in absurd juxtaposition is not enough, on its own. to make a Dali or Magritte image, even if that is what can frequently be found in them.
There is something more, but something less easy to define than "historically accurate."

Putting -- fantasy model railroad--* into Google images gave much food for thought**. Chris Walas is, of course, king.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=645&ei=CvxZW4jNEqbhkgXppoDACw&q=fantasy+model+railroad&oq=fantasy+model+&gs_l=img.1.4.0l9.1760.10627.0.15818.22.16.3.3.2.0.145.1009.12j2.14.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..2.17.885.0..0i10k1.0.VZk1MsDVVis#imgrc=_zg4dHpw4G5cUM:

Chris. Just thinking.


* -- fantasy model railway -- does throw up a FEW different images.

**not least from the subcategories then offered! I'm stuck here for a while, now. South Manchester?
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Mountain
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Mountain » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:23 pm

heda wrote:As Mountain mentioned my Polar Express based layout I thought I'd add the link, it is really just a Christmas decoration based on a £1.50 battery train set.
Dave

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52384


Yes. That's it. Thanks Heda. You're layout is an amazing creation that captures the type of idea that I call under the lose term "Creative" though maybe we need a different term to use.

Bigmet... I've just gone on an interesting exploration into the fantasy world of "Steampunk" as I didn't have a clue what it was. (It is an acquired taste!). I dont think it is the route that I am heading in as it is a bit too extreme for me, but I thank you for mentioning it as I didn't know there was such a term. My idea is to go slightly along the lines of fantasy but hone it in a bit to make it creative but give a realistic " Feel". I like the freedom that thinking outside the box has, but at the same time I want things to make sense so if it were scaled up into the real world, it would be a working railway... That is my style of thinking so far.
I love the fact that people are doing something different, though I admit that as soon as one defines a style, then it is no longer different!

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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Pete » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:58 pm

Some years ago I mad a 'toy train' in the style of German expressionist cinema, I used a Fleischmann Magic Train.

Image

complete with hallucinatory writing... (don't even begin to ask!)

Image


It all packed away into a cardboard 'refugee' suitcase:

Image

Image

I made different styles of buildings, flats and 3D.

the case was filled with ephemera, including old post cards and WWI ration tokens

Image

I also started a layout set in Hades, souls are raised from the river Styx in a galvanised bucket and loaded into tippers...

Image

Image

Had to dig deep into my archives to find all these pics:)

Pete
It's the nature of evolution
The dinosaurs went to Hell

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Mountain
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Re: Creative Modelling.

Postby Mountain » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:20 pm

Interesting. Those suitcases are not made in the numbers they used to be made. When I saw the Faller coach I thought "I have one of those!" You've probably seen the adapted Faller coach that I have. It was just a bit too wide and tall for my loading gauge. I've painted the under framework black since that photograph was taken.
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