Different Values For The Same Model?

Discuss model railway topics and news that do not fit into other sections.
User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 2927
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Mountain » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:29 pm

Have you ever been puzzled how the prices of models vary when logically there's no difference to them? Let's say we have two versions of the same model. They both started out identical until the livery, name and number was applied. There was no difference to the manufacturer in costs to make one version or the other. Yet the one sells for a higher price as they make fewer of them.
Now let's look at the secondhand market. The price of the one where less were made holds an even higher price when compared to the one which was more plentiful.
However, if anyone takes either version and changes the livery or just the name and number plates, one has something unique and one of a kind. How come that even though this could be excellently done... How come that this model will sell on the secondhand market cheaper then even the plentiful model did? The mind boggles!
Now going back to an overall view of how things should be is that all versions should be a similar price when new as they dont cost any more or less to make, as long as they are made in a sufficient quantity to justify the changing of the colour of the livery.
Secondhand prices can vary slightly as the lower production volumes are more saught after, but apart from that, there should be no difference of price when new.
Now why do some new models go for more then others? Because modellers are prepared to pay far more then they are worth to get something different. In a way it is throwing money away as you dont actually get something that is any different then the version with a higher production run as underneath the paint they are identical.
Puzzling isn't it!
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 10662
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:33 pm

It's the collector mentality that sets these prices, just look what they get for a mint condition empty box, almost as much as a run of the mill loco. All of my stuff gets run. If it's on permanent display in the cabinet, it's because it's clapped out, like the heritage lines its chances of restoration depends on the needs of the running department.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 2927
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Mountain » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:43 pm

Funny you mention clapped out models going on display... Some of mine found residence in engine sheds etc... :lol:
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

Dublo
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:54 am
Location: London

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Dublo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:02 am

Hi
Speaking as a collector and runner of vintage models. The variations of particular items can make the prices go some where in the astronomical scale of things. To add the packaging to that as well can double the price. Most of my collection is un boxed as the items are in use on the layout. To have empty boxes taking up storage space has to be limited. I would also rather spend my resources on the actual models themselves, if the choice comes down to a more run of the mill item in the condition it left Binns Road or a variation of the same item. My money would go on the variation.

Dad-1
Posts: 5500
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:11 am

Buyer beware .........
However something is worth whatever you can get some idiot to pay.

Geoff T
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Bigmet
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:15 am

I like it, because the cheaper ones are just as good for my purposes. I have lucked in on a few items bought at low prices that then for reasons known only to those with cash burning holes in their pockets inflated in value, my last such was a Hornby Clan. Not vital for my modelling so it got sold on because people were paying silly money. As Geoff: I don't object to others being willing to fund my hobby.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 10662
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:03 am

Dublo wrote:Most of my collection is un boxed as the items are in use on the layout.


That admission will get you drummed out of the Corps of Collectors for sure :wink:
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Dublo
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:54 am
Location: London

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Dublo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:21 am

Hi Bufferstop
The truth be known I suspect most collections are. I have got some items that have their packaging. Personally a train of boxes doesn't have the same appeal. Some can take it to far though.

Bigmet
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:47 am

Not that it matters, but the dealers I have known suspect otherwise, coming up with estimates that between 60 and 80 percent of their sales go to collectors. Key indicators: pretty much only RTR locos are purchased, possibly some straight track (most likely for display purposes) no purchases of spares or modelling supplies of any kind, no complaints or returns for model not running or other problems.

Positively, I suspect this reliable and trouble free revenue stream is probably what makes the supply of RTR models economically viable.

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 2927
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Mountain » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:16 pm

Bigmet wrote:Not that it matters, but the dealers I have known suspect otherwise, coming up with estimates that between 60 and 80 percent of their sales go to collectors. Key indicators: pretty much only RTR locos are purchased, possibly some straight track (most likely for display purposes) no purchases of spares or modelling supplies of any kind, no complaints or returns for model not running or other problems.

Positively, I suspect this reliable and trouble free revenue stream is probably what makes the supply of RTR models economically viable.

A dealer near me never takes the items out the boxes because he says as soon as the box is opened he can't sell them. I asked him how we know the loco isworking and what would we do if it does not? He said if there was an issue with the item to deal direct with the manufacturer rather then return it to him.
It is a very different world to just20 years ago when most shops would show the loco running before you buy it.
Dont get me wrong. If you are going to collect anything then trains it is! :D Its just very different hobby then it used to be.
The last time I went to a sales fair to sell some surplus items,most of what I sold were card kits, plastic buildings and scenic items.
However, many people looked at a few wagons that I had. It was surprising how many went straight for certain wagons but when I told them it was repainted (One of my better jobs) they didn't want to know. They were not interested in any weathered wagons no matter how well weathered they were.it goes to show how the collectors love origionality. I believe some of them may have been buying to sell on to others.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

Bigmet
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Bigmet » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:12 am

Mountain wrote:A dealer near me never takes the items out the boxes because he says as soon as the box is opened he can't sell them. I asked him how we know the loco is working and what would we do if it does not? He said if there was an issue with the item to deal direct with the manufacturer rather then return it to him...

And there you are. That's evidence that this dealer is most interested in sales to collectors, they are the customers who come first in his mind. If that is an accurate rendition of his statement about untested and potentially non-working items, then clearly doesn't want to fulfil his vendor responsibility if the goods are not fit for purpose. No trouble like that with collectors, they are his ideal customer.

Mountain wrote:...it goes to show how the collectors love originality. I believe some of them may have been buying to sell on to others.

Very much so. The trading element is a major part of collectorising, and in my experience there's some odd behaviour that goes with it. When there was a convenient trade fair operating (it packed in sometime after 2010) I would wander over with older items to get rid - usually on behalf of a couple of elderly friends - and was not infrequently exposed to reluctance to pony up the money. They wanted to do playground style swapsies, of the sort I had last experienced in the primary school playground trade in cigarette cards.

No, money is what's required, I am not looking to leave the room with more model railway product than I came in with. If you want his old and perfect H-D, Wrenn, whatever, then make with the folding stuff. Some of them would break sweat and get shaky hands at this point.

User avatar
luckymucklebackit
Posts: 2921
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:05 am
Location: Eaglesham, south of Glasgow
Contact:

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby luckymucklebackit » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:15 am

Mountain wrote: A dealer near me never takes the items out the boxes because he says as soon as the box is opened he can't sell them. I asked him how we know the loco is working and what would we do if it does not? He said if there was an issue with the item to deal direct with the manufacturer rather then return it to him.



Total BullS**t - The dealer in question should be made aware that your rights as a purchaser under the Consumer Rights Act are against the retailer – the company that sold you the product – not the manufacturer, so you must take any claim to the retailer. That is the law and as a retailer he must comply. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
Image

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 10662
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 pm

There's an answer to the box never opened nonsense, in the interest of conserving resources the manufacturer's should switch from clear plastic sleeves to ecco friendly reconstituted cardboard. They could then produce sealed collectors editions with just a lead weight inside the box :D
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
luckymucklebackit
Posts: 2921
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:05 am
Location: Eaglesham, south of Glasgow
Contact:

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby luckymucklebackit » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:46 pm

Bufferstop wrote:There's an answer to the box never opened nonsense, in the interest of conserving resources the manufacturer's should switch from clear plastic sleeves to ecco friendly reconstituted cardboard. They could then produce sealed collectors editions with just a lead weight inside the box :D


I once remember watching "Antiques Roadshow" where a young lad had brought along a very collectable die cast lorry (can't remember the details), the expert gave him a valuation then the lad showed him that he had another example of this model, this one was still in the brown paper wrapping that it had been delivered in! The expert was somewhat at a loss to offer a value for this, as if the wrapping was taken off it would devalue it, but as Bufferstop has suggested above, there was no way of verifying that it was that model without the wrapping taken off. MRI scanning anyone!

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
Image

Bigmet
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Different Values For The Same Model?

Postby Bigmet » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:33 pm

Bufferstop wrote:...They could then produce sealed collectors editions with just a lead weight inside the box :D

I am occasionally tempted by the thought of utilising cheap supermarket confectionery to ballast appropriately and sell 'mint in box'.


Return to “General Model Railway Discussion / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests