Hornby in the news today

Discuss model railway topics and news that do not fit into other sections.
User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4296
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby End2end » Tue May 15, 2018 12:12 pm

Another day, another email from Hornby telling us about all thier new products... none of which are any good to me.
And here we go again with Hornby's crazy ideas....... If a model is new tooling WHY ON EARTH would you make it LIMITED EDITION?
https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/shop/new-a ... ition.html
And why combine wagons into a set of 3 when all can be bought seperatly, have been available for ages singularly and thier paintjob suggests they worked miles away from each other?
https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/shop/new-a ... era-3.html

I honestly give up trying to understand thier madness, I really do. :roll:
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 11280
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby Bufferstop » Tue May 15, 2018 1:03 pm

Pack of three wagons! No new tooling there, just another paint job, and don't they look peculiar with a 3-4 foot gap between adjacent buffer heads. The NEM mounting box has a lot to answer for. Even on first radius the coupler could be shortened by a couple of millimetres.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

b308
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby b308 » Tue May 15, 2018 1:05 pm

End2end wrote:If a model is new tooling WHY ON EARTH would you make it LIMITED EDITION?


One word...

"Collectors"...

More variations you make the more they'll buy them, cheap way to sell more.

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4296
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby End2end » Tue May 15, 2018 2:22 pm

b308 wrote:"Collectors"...

Ahh! I hadn't considered that.
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3880
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby Mountain » Tue May 15, 2018 2:49 pm

Collectors are a whole new breed into the hobby. Actually collectors have been around a while but there were not many of them in the past.
A few decades ago there were still the occasional limited edition, but in general it was a standard model with a different name ands number where it wasn't intended for collectors to buy but for modellers who wanted a change from the norm and were willing to pay a little extra to get something different. Back then there was not so much choice of models so it was something interesting.
Then the UK importer of Lima found they could make more money per item imported as a limited edition and started a policy of concentrating importing limited edition items. The ordinary catalogue items hardly made it to the shops. The limited edition models were not actually limited, as no sooner had they made one batch of 504 limited edition locomotives when after a gap of a year or two the same locomotive with the same name and number by the same company would be offered in a second batch and then a third etc. So though Limas limited edition models fetch higher prices, they are plentiful and the catalogued items that were supposed to be sold at the same time were real rarities. (I had pallet vans (Any livery! I wasnt fussed) on order for a whole decade and none came through even though each year they were in the catalogue!)
It was around this time that collectors came on the scene in their droves. It was also a time of great change in the hobby as the Hornby and others moved to China. I'd say the nicest models I've seen by Hornby were during the first couple of years after the move, as China took the models that were made in the UK and improved them. During this time is when one saw beautiful five pole ringfield motors and all the wheels became fine tuned and balanced. It was the time before the push to economise the manufacturing process so one had real quality without the models increasing in price. If anything, Hornby were making more money for each model sold then they had been when manufacturing in the UK, so the modellers were happy and so were Hornby.

allan
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:55 pm

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby allan » Tue May 15, 2018 4:19 pm

Bufferstop wrote:Pack of three wagons! No new tooling there, just another paint job, and don't they look peculiar with a 3-4 foot gap between adjacent buffer heads. The NEM mounting box has a lot to answer for. Even on first radius the coupler could be shortened by a couple of millimetres.


Don't blame the NEM "Norms"! If the coupler box was fitted to a close coupling mechanism, with appropriate couplers, and the wagons were sufficiently weighted, there'd be no problem. The coupler box is only the cheapest part of the package...

NEM coupler boxes are just fine as applied by the "non-British" Europeans, but there you get the whole package (and you pay for it).

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3880
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby Mountain » Tue May 15, 2018 6:19 pm

If we avoid the little issues like the NEM pockets and the occasional chassis rot issue from the past, I have to say that the range of products that Hornby product or have access to, is amazing when compared to a few decades ago.
I have to say that my favourite range of products that Hornby made was in 1978 extending to about 1982. The 1978 catalogue was inspiring! Though comparing to now, we are so spoilt with choice today that it is amazing. Is just the prices are too high.
I do understand why high prices are charged as with so many extra shareholders to pay for their investment along with the huge debts, and all the middlemen (Middle persons!) who also need their share for them to be paid so we can enjoy our trains... It is surprising there is enough left to buy plastic and metal to make more models!
The prices are still too high though! :lol: :D :lol: :D

Notanyware
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:12 am

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby Notanyware » Tue May 15, 2018 9:12 pm

No matter which way you look at it model railways are up the creek without a paddle, once the next couple of generations have moved onto the big railway in the sky that will be curtains for the hobby as we know it.
I have 18 grandkids all in love with iPads, xBoxes, PlayStation's or sport, when they visit my place they think Pa has lost his marbles playing trains, I tried to get the boys interested in trains when they were little but it never advanced past them watching train crashes on YouTube, my advice is enjoy what we have today quit looking into the problems and just have fun

Cheers
Dave

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3880
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby Mountain » Tue May 15, 2018 10:21 pm

My brother has a few kiddies. (9 of them of various ages). Both the girls and boys were fascinated watching me make waggons etc. They were not really interested until I started scratchbuilding. The problem is with a three bedroom house, space is difficult so he has to say no.

GWR_fan
Posts: 4945
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby GWR_fan » Tue May 15, 2018 10:33 pm

Mountain wrote:........The limited edition models were not actually limited, as no sooner had they made one batch of 504 limited edition locomotives when after a gap of a year or two the same locomotive with the same name and number by the same company would be offered in a second batch and then a third etc. So though Limas limited edition models fetch higher prices, they are plentiful and the catalogued items that were supposed to be sold at the same time were real rarities............................


Being a tall person did not dissuade me from my love for Minis. I drove Minis for years and enjoyed every moment. Thus when the time came downunder to stop production it was decided to do a very limited run to commemorate the last Mini in production, thus the 1978 1275LS was released. I believe the same model in the UK was the 1275GT. Production was limited to 750 each of a run of silver and gold Minis, totalling 1500 uinits. The cars sold like hotcakes, so what did the company do with this very limited production, well they released another 750 units in each colour. Thus instead of being a limited run the market was flooded and prices dropped. No chance for investment opportunities.

Four months after purchase with increasing disappointment at the extremely poor build quality, I took a big loss and disposed of the piece of rubbish. A consumer is dependent on the honesty of the manufacturer to actually limit production for supposedly limited runs. Look to Bachmann with their limited run NRM releases. Those who purchased them had no idea the manufacturer was going to later release less expensive versions, even in one case releasing the loco in a trainset.

User avatar
flying scotsman123
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:29 pm
Location: err, down there round the corner... not that one!!!

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby flying scotsman123 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Notanyware wrote:No matter which way you look at it model railways are up the creek without a paddle, once the next couple of generations have moved onto the big railway in the sky that will be curtains for the hobby as we know it.
I have 18 grandkids all in love with iPads, xBoxes, PlayStation's or sport, when they visit my place they think Pa has lost his marbles playing trains, I tried to get the boys interested in trains when they were little but it never advanced past them watching train crashes on YouTube, my advice is enjoy what we have today quit looking into the problems and just have fun

Cheers
Dave


I totally agree with your last sentence, though I don't share your pessimism for the future.
"listen carefully, i shall say this only once"

Image

Bigmet
Posts: 6619
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby Bigmet » Wed May 16, 2018 9:01 am

allan wrote:Don't blame the NEM "Norms"! If the coupler box was fitted to a close coupling mechanism, with appropriate couplers, and the wagons were sufficiently weighted, there'd be no problem. The coupler box is only the cheapest part of the package...

NEM coupler boxes are just fine as applied by the "non-British" Europeans, but there you get the whole package (and you pay for it).

How true. The best that can be said of the coupler pocket applied to UK OO is that it makes adjustment or fitting different couplers typically easier than the earlier screw on or moulded on couplers, and has expanded coupler choices to those made by the European manufacturers who know what they are about!

The coupler pocket was applied as a 'bolt on' to UK product, with insufficient thought about what might be achieved, in my opinion. Top of the list for not thought about was the tension lock coupler's fundamental unsuitability for use with close coupling mechanisms. Internet forums were the place where the 'how to' got disseminated, by users discovering and sharing experience.

On balance I am happy that we got the coupler pocket in OO, and even happier when it properly becomes an NEM coupler pocket by dint of being mounted in accordance with the NEM specification, as that usually means less adjustment required for an optimum result. (It is only only a few of the more recent coaches from Bachmann and Hornby that I can use the standard Roco coupler with no fiddling about: credit where due, there has been some movement toward doing it right, even if neither maker has bothered to actually sell the most appropriate coupler types!)To date none of the height adjustable couplers that go with this technique have ever been promoted in the UK. It's very half-hearted as an approach.

b308 wrote:
End2end wrote:If a model is new tooling WHY ON EARTH would you make it LIMITED EDITION?


One word...

"Collectors"...

More variations you make the more they'll buy them, cheap way to sell more.

It is a large section of their market, suspected to be their 'bouyancy aid'. Should I live long enough to see this flooding back onto the s/h market I think it will be something of a spectacle. Most of it worthless...

Very unlike Bachmann who have made something of a speciality of producing common vehicles (often with the major variations) which a modeller will buy in a 'trainload' quantity to operate, and get the sales volume that way. When Hornby do produce a good model of a common vehicle they don't 'get busy' and churn it in volume with the common variations. I know which approach I prefer, and the resulting Bachmann domination of my late steam wagon fleet goes 80% Bachmann, 10% kit builds, 10% other manufacturers: and I suspect that in the last 10% the Airfix/Dapol total of the vital LMS standard van beats the Hornby total.

User avatar
D605Eagle
Posts: 2651
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby D605Eagle » Thu May 17, 2018 3:00 am

End2end wrote:And why combine wagons into a set of 3 when all can be bought seperatly, have been available for ages singularly and thier paintjob suggests they worked miles away from each other?
https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/shop/new-a ... era-3.html

I honestly give up trying to understand thier madness, I really do. :roll:
Thanks
End2end

Old tat wagons that haven't sold, bunged in a box. Actually Hornby have done this from time to time for many years. Anybody who pays the asking price for them though needs their head testing! :lol:

GWR_fan
Posts: 4945
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby GWR_fan » Thu May 17, 2018 4:37 am

I wonder if the collector brigade have actually been opening their boxes to see the condition of their class 31, class 50, class 56, T9 and 9F locomotives to see if nature has taken its toll.

Bigmet
Posts: 6619
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Hornby in the news today

Postby Bigmet » Thu May 17, 2018 8:39 am

Well... A couple of months past there was a newcomer on another site enquiring whether anyone knew why his early Heljan 47's had burst their body shells. And that was way the first of the Chinese OO production mazak rot victims to surface.

I suspect this will not be an isolated incident. Estimates vary widely of just how much of the market in diesel traction is 'collectors' who essentially never take the goods out of the box, (beyond perhaps a brave few who want to look at their purchases once, and confident enough to do it without risk of disrupting the MIB claim). I have never heard anyone go below half of their sales though. (Lima 'did a job' on this sector of the UK model railway interest alright, and it hasn't worn off yet. You can spot victims quite easily, their posts major on "no-one has done the class 49 in Victorinox small purple panel, hot water radiator and Roberts radio livery" and it's been in service a year already".)

The recent announcement of an all singing and dancing class 66 from Hattons produced some interesting comments. It was very apparent that there were people who had already bought all - or nearly so - of Bachmann's class 66 model. They were basically testing the water for collector cred, consciously or unconsciously. Will I have to sell on all my Bach 66s to avoid my brown cardigan buttons being ripped off? Will I even be able to mention that I have the superseded model once the Hattons one is out?


Return to “General Model Railway Discussion / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests