gwr coaches

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4472
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gwr coaches

Postby 4472 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:51 pm

I am assembling a Cornish Riviera set and have the loco sorted and some LIma coaches As this is set in the40/50's are these coaches correct. I just want to know if there are any other makes that are better or more appropriate
Great grandson of Peter Benjamin Spicer (LNWR retired)

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Re: gwr coaches

Postby GWR_fan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:22 am

I assume that your Lima coaches are 'chocolate and cream' Mk1 with "Great Western" on the sides. GWR was nationalised in 1948 so coaches from 1951 would not be appropriate for GWR. Also the WR Mk1 coaches did not get their ex-GWR livery colour scheme (chocolate and cream) until 1957 and then only on named expresses. If set in the early 1950's then either an early crest loco and custard and cream livery coaches or if late 1950's then late crest totem and WR "chocolate and cream" for a named train.

If you want a "Cornish Riviera Express" in GWR guise then really the old Airfix/retooled by Hornby Centenary coaches or perhaps Collett coaches from either Hornby super detail (expensive), Bachmann (relatively expensive) or Hornby Railroad (not overly expensive).

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Re: gwr coaches

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:31 am

This very much depends on how fussy you are over your 40s/50s time period and just what you mean by that period.

During the 1940s up to 1945 GWR coaches when repainted went into overall brown, an 'austerity' paint job, something that most modellers ignore. (Saw a very good GWR exhibition layout this weekend set in 1944, with not a brown coach in sight: colour photos of the period show plenty!)

Restoration of chocolate and cream to their coaches was not completed by the time BR was formed Jan 1st 1948, and by the end of 1948 repaints of ex-GWR gangwayed stock and all new building of coaches got BR's carmine and cream livery. (I believe a set for the CRE was painted in one of BR's experimental coach liveries during 1948 before the choice settled on carmine and cream, unlikely to have been very attractive.)

BR then adopted maroon as standard for coaches in 1957.

From 1940 onwards the result is that you would be lucky to see a train consistently in one livery, until about 1955 with carmine and cream by then over the whole coach fleet, thanks to all this livery variation. The carmine and cream had poor weathering qualities, so even if you saw a whole train in this livery chances are that there would be mismatches. And then in 1957 it all kicked off again, taking roughly four years to get most of the fleet into maroon, so once again mixed-livery trains. (The GWR coaches were typically scrapped in carmine and cream rather than repainted into maroon as their design was very dated in key features that BR required.)

The Lima coaches will be mk1 so only good for post 1951 in BR's carmine and cream, with most going to BR standard maroon and selected vehicles in chocolate and cream from 1957. There are pre-WWII Collett coaches from Bach and Hornby, and Hawksworth coaches which are 1947 and later from Hornby, most of these latter built under BR and in carmine and cream. The BR mk1 is available from both Bachmann and Hornby, Bachmann are notable for offering a decent range of types such that a good representation of a real formation can be made.

Mid fifties the CRE ran with 11 coaches intended to be a complete set of BR mk1: BSK/SK/SK/SK/SO/RF/FK/CK/BSK/SK/BCK (+ SK/BCK Saturdays only).

Steam traction up to the introduction of the first diesels in 1958 should be a King, and of course that will be in BR's Blue liveries specified for the maximum express power in each BR region from roughly mid 1948 to 1952, precise dates vary by loco. It doesn't sit well on a King, and the combination with coaches still in GWR chocolate and cream is unharmonious to say the least.

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Mountain
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Re: gwr coaches

Postby Mountain » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:34 pm

You need a castle class and some of the "Super saloon" coaches which were said to make Pullman coaches look second class! Castles were the norm for passenger express work. Not sure if they used kings on the route as kings had a double red route availability. Castles were so successful that they were often preferred to kings as they were easier to work for loco crew, used less coal and there wasn't much difference in pulling power between each loco. Theoretically the kings were superior but in reality for those who worked them, they only had a slight difference and the poor firemen had so much more work to do!
Centenary coaches are the ones I'd get.

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Re: gwr coaches

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:49 pm

The Castle in Cornwall, or alternatively a Hawksworth County, because Saltash bridge was too weak for a King - forgot that. This job needed a King Paddington-Plymouth during the time period mentioned, and if not available the train had to be double headed to keep time due to the banks.

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D605Eagle
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Re: gwr coaches

Postby D605Eagle » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:39 pm

IIRC only Kings were allowed over Dainton banks unaided.

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End2end
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Re: gwr coaches

Postby End2end » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:01 pm

4472 I wonder if this is any good to you. I just found it on ebay and rather expensive but I'm sure you'd be able to find it cheaper.

GWR COACHING STOCK 1903-48 INCL SCALE DWGS FOR RAILWAY MODELLER & HISTORIAN BOOK

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GWR-COACHING ... 0276.m3476

Hope it helps.
Thanks
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Re: gwr coaches

Postby flying scotsman123 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:12 pm

I think most aspects have been covered, it was a King up front most of the way until restrictions dictated either a castle or a hall for the last bit. Pre-1948 it would be the latest design of GWR carriages in chocolate and cream. 1948 BR came into being. Initially the same GWR carriages would have been used but in 1949 they started painting them in Carmine and cream (blood and custard). in 1951 the first BR Mk1s were built, and would have been painted in carmine and cream. Slightly dissenting from Bigmet here, but in 1956 the Mk1s would have been painted chocolate and cream not maroon for this particular service. I'm fairly sure the coaches remained chocolate and cream until the service was dieselised.

The caveat to all of this of course is that not all coaches were repainted at once, or even replaced at once, although this being the named train on the GWR/Western Region this service would have got all the new stuff first.
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4472
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Re: gwr coaches

Postby 4472 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:16 pm

Thanks for the information. My uncle was a driver and the last picture before retirement in 1961 shows him in charge of 5008 Raglan Castle, so I have chosen that in memory of him ( renamed and renumbered by me from Hornby Hampden Castle). I just needed to get the best looking coaches as the Lima MK1's look a bit tatty compared with some others
Great grandson of Peter Benjamin Spicer (LNWR retired)

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Mountain
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Re: gwr coaches

Postby Mountain » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:27 pm

They may look less detailed, but rarely do you get coaches that run as well as Lima coaches do. (As long as one has code 100 track).

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Re: gwr coaches

Postby D605Eagle » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:30 pm

Mountain wrote:They may look less detailed, but rarely do you get coaches that run as well as Lima coaches do. (As long as one has code 100 track).

The very last ones had wheels with much lower profile flanges. I have a rake with flush glazing and close coupling. When in motion they look just as good as Hornby's latest offering, and yes they run really great.


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