Sad news

Discuss model railway topics and news that do not fit into other sections.
mumbles
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Re: Sad news

Postby mumbles » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:10 am

Lancastrian wrote:Just for the record in archaeology, inscriptions or drawings scratched or carved onto a surface, esp rock or pottery is classed as graffiti.

Does it matter if its art, graffiti or whatever other term that you want to use to describe it. Whether it's good or bad in the eyes of the beholder, It's something painted/daubed where it shouldn't be, so let's get back to the origins of this thread.

Yes. It does matter. Is it hard to grasp that this thread is about vandalism and there is a huge body of work that isn't classed as vandalism but is called graffiti art ?

Case in point. Is this vandalism? Is it art? Is it graffiti? Is it a mural? Whether you like the art or agree with the water tower being painted it falls in a very distinct category to the awful vandalism in the story being discussed

Cardiff water tower 50ft high mural unveiled - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-42437371

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Re: Sad news

Postby b308 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:35 am

Or another way of looking at it...

As far as I am concerned graffiti is vandalism, I don't differentiate between "scriblings" and "graffiti art", they are both done by the same person, a vandal. There may be a style of art that uses graffiti as it's inspiration and is used where someone wants a blank wall on their house livening up but unless that permission is granted then the painter is still a vandal and people really need to see and understand that point, no matter how spectacular the graffiti it's still vandalism. How would some of you like it if you got home and your house/car/whatever had been covered with spray paint...

There was a programme a few years ago which featured a lad who loved destroying other people's possessions, no current punishment ever got through to him (it was long after corporal punishment ended) so what they did was took some of his treasured possessions and destroyed them, that made him look at things a lot differently... Perhaps that's a way forward, paint the vandal's (sorry, artist's) possessions?!
Last edited by b308 on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sad news

Postby Lancastrian » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:37 am

mumbles wrote:
Lancastrian wrote:Just for the record in archaeology, inscriptions or drawings scratched or carved onto a surface, esp rock or pottery is classed as graffiti.

Does it matter if its art, graffiti or whatever other term that you want to use to describe it. Whether it's good or bad in the eyes of the beholder, It's something painted/daubed where it shouldn't be, so let's get back to the origins of this thread.

Yes. It does matter. Is it hard to grasp that this thread is about vandalism and there is a huge body of work that isn't classed as vandalism but is called graffiti art ?

Case in point. Is this vandalism? Is it art? Is it graffiti? Is it a mural? Whether you like the art or agree with the water tower being painted it falls in a very distinct category to the awful vandalism in the story being discussed

Cardiff water tower 50ft high mural unveiled - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-42437371

Maybe I haven't made my point clear mumbles, and that is, does it matter if it's called art or graffiti, I do agree it's vandalism and shouldn't go unpunished if those responsible can be found.
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Re: Sad news

Postby b308 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:41 am

And the punishment must be enough to want the vandal to stop doing it... And that is where the problem lies, some of us don't think current punishments work, some do, and there is plenty of evidence to support both points of view... Never the twain!


The really sad part is that some of these low lifes are actually very good artists, as Mumbles rightly points out, it's a shame they can't channel their energies into something more useful, but until we as a society stop venerating the likes of banksy thus encouraging others to do the same we will always have this issue...

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Re: Sad news

Postby Lancastrian » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:47 am

b308 wrote:And the punishment must be enough to want the vandal to stop doing it... And that is where the problem lies, some of us don't think current punishments work, some do, and there is plenty of evidence to support both points of view... Never the twain!

You are right, one size doesn't fit all even with 'punishment', Each individual has to be dealt with in a way that is fitting for them and the act committed.
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Re: Sad news

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:26 pm

b308 wrote:but until we as a society stop venerating the likes of banksy

You show me a gallery that would have exhibited his art in the early 90's. It's too controversial to the likes of most asleep poeple.

We as a society should stop venerating these so called celebraties. What a waste of space they really are.
So Holly Willohby has a media company? Smacks of TAX AVOIDANCE to me.

As for permissions. I used to be a STREET ARTIST.. NOT A VANDEL and permission was only given ONCE.

Sorry but your completely missing the point. Street art is to embelish the area, greffiti is stupid people spreading thier name scribbles everywhere.
Please find the distinction.
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Re: Sad news

Postby mumbles » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:37 pm


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Re: Sad news

Postby b308 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:54 pm

End2end wrote:As for permissions. I used to be a STREET ARTIST.. NOT A VANDEL and permission was only given ONCE.

Sorry but your completely missing the point. Street art is to embelish the area, greffiti is stupid people spreading thier name scribbles everywhere.
Please find the distinction.
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End2end


Sorry, E2E, but you should add "in the eye of the person doing it" to the italic'd section. In your eyes you may be an artist, but to the owner of that property and many others looking at it you are a vandal. There is no distinction to find. If you want to paint street art to brighten places up (that I can understand) you must get permission first, if you don't then you are no better than the "stupid people" you seem to loath.

That wall, or train, or whatever, is someone elses property, and you should respect that ownership and what they want...
Last edited by b308 on Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sad news

Postby b308 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:58 pm

mumbles wrote:Ill just leave this here :lol:

http://www.modelrailwayscenery.com/2013 ... e-printed/


There's a few companies who make them for foreign trains as well... Over here the Companies clean the stuff off pretty quickly, though it can take a day or so which means that a unit is out of use thus shortening services and causing inconvenience for passengers... Over in Central Europe I've seen quite a lot of it but they don't bother, they just leave it, but their stock is older and more run down than ours so i suppose they don't think it's worth bothering with...

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Re: Sad news

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:10 pm

I'm sorry but how do you (as in the viewer) know if the artist had permission or not just by looking at something painted somewhere?
Obviously in this case this is nothing but pure vandalism.

I think I should give an example.
Back in the 80's there was a book produced called (I think) subway art.
In the book its shows an amazing peice of street art depiciting the whole of New York city. Within a month people came and "tagged" all over it.
The original artists came back, painted a massive black box over the tags stating on it that they were trying to improve the look of the area FOR ALL but as there were idiots tagging all over it they decided to deface it with the black paint and state thier case saying if this is what your going to do to the art We (they) wouldnt bother trying to improve the look of the area.

Just to put my point across.
This is vandalism
Image

This is street art
Image

The distinction between them is blatent.
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Re: Sad news

Postby mumbles » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:16 pm

Not for some :roll:

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Re: Sad news

Postby b308 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:27 pm

End2end wrote:I'm sorry but how do you (as in the viewer) know if the artist had permission or not just by looking at something painted somewhere?


I don't, but that is not the point. If you have permission then the owner won't complain, if you don't, no matter how much YOU think it improves the looks of the area, you as the painter are a vandal as you have defaced something...

I agree that some of the stuff does improve the area, there are plenty of great examples of Wall Art around (but not on model railways for some reason!) but my point is simply that permission should be sought before doing it, you, from your earlier post obviously don't think that you should have to... I would simply refer you to the earlier post which asked how would you feel if it was done all over one of your prized possessions without your say-so... Such as your model railway for instance?

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Re: Sad news

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:37 pm

Just for you B308. The second picture I posted DID have permission.
Do you like it, as by definition Is it not art now? :D
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Re: Sad news

Postby b308 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:01 pm

I'm well impressed with it, E2E, as I am with the other "official" examples of street art... We've got several underpasses in Kiddy and the ones that have been done there (and not scribbled over by the idiots) are very impressive and certainly brighten things up! Hopefully this will come out ok...

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http://flipc.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/kid ... other.html

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Re: Sad news

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:20 pm

They've demolished it now, but there use to be a great bit of anti vandal graffiti in B'ham, where the Bull Ring met Queensway. It was a staircase in the end of a building with a six storey blank wall which would have been a real target for some unofficial embellishment, so they did the whole six storeys in Jackson Pollock style whirls, splashes and drips all with heavily textured paint. Short of coloured spraycrete nothing would show up on it.
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