Coupling advice and replacements needed

Discuss model railway topics and news that do not fit into other sections.
Dad-1
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:20 am

Kept quiet on this because my "Fix" is not everyone's ideal.
I often saw off all traces of original coupling mounting blocks
then stick on those Parkside Dundas mountings that have the
suitable fish-tail cut-out to accept Bachmann small NEM pockets
and tension lock couplings.
Setting to the exact height often means attaching a plate to wagon
undersides and/or sanding the two ridges on the mountings.

I don't look for fully automatic uncoupling - always done manually on
the prototype anyway, but use either my stick mounted magnet, or
even a track muonted magnet to use the staple on uncoupling extension,
can't remember who's name it's credited to, but Both methods can be
easily included on wagons to offer Auto at fixed locations, Manual
anywhere else.

Have you seen my uncoupling video ? If not I'll post a link later.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Dad-1
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:14 am

Hi E2E,

Here is the link.
https://youtu.be/TaWdlHCzfMI

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 11820
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:17 am

Yesterday I had my fill of Bachman's close coupling system. I was attempting to video the final part of thesequence my wife wanted for her exam task. The problem stems from the whole mechanism being rather "floppy" with couplers either drooping too low to match the adjacent vehicles or being biased towards one side, inevitably the wrong way to assist coupling. For the final shot I ended up with a length of thread pulling the rake through the frame, then chopping off the ends of the take before merging it with the end of the previous one. I foresee some surgery being performed in the near future.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Dad-1
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:27 am

H Bufferstop,

The height is always a problem. Dapol droop quite severely, some Bachmann
are slightly raised and Hornby use a different length narrow tensionlock !!

I spend hours getting coupling at the same heigh on all my stock. Then if you
use Kaydees you need to spend hours getting heights exactly right so nothing
gained at huge expense.

Bachmann are best being brass hooks, sometimes I reverse the NEM couplings
as this small 'change' can sometimes give a better position. All the fine tuning
is repaid in accurate and reliable coupling up, as in fact my previously mentioned
video shows. A job for long winter evenings when, as usual, there is nothing on
TV worth watching.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby End2end » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:21 pm

Thanks for the video Dad-1 :)
I am actually trying to completely remove hand of god movements thus the track magnets but I do like the idea of your uncoupling wand. I only have strong magnets that will pull an empty wagon off the rails so can I ask. Are your wagons/vans weighted? And what is the size of the magnet?
The name you was after is Brian Kirby.
My problem with sawing off the couplings is that most of my Dapol wagons are rare limited editions and I have no faith in my skills to do a correct job and I really dont want to hack and slash such expensive wagons.

Bufferstop...if it helps I have a 8 foot by 8 foot green screen and a 6 foot by 6 foot blue screen? :lol:

I also have some GMR / Airfix wagons that have the same old coupling type as the Dapol wagons.
Does anyone know the heritage of Dapol as I heard that (like Hornby buying all those businesses including Corgi, Airfix etc) Dapol bought other companies which are now under the Dapol banner. Does this include the GMR range as like mentioned they have the same couplings?
I am going to call Dapol today and ask them about the replacement chassis's. A rather expensive way round but again, I really don't want to cut these limited editions up and if the chassis's also fit the GMR wagons I will buy them for those as well.
(Just as a side note, I won't be buying the chassis's from 2KTechnologies on fleabait. That seller takes the urine with his prices but the previous link was just to show them)

It's surprising that since I started back in the hobby some 2 years now I've found that you can buy almost anything in the model sphere but there is still a lot lacking in the "of the shelf" stuff like replacement non-ferrous hooks for couplings (rather than whole couplings)and whole working mechanisms such as the moving gate I am trying to build or off the shelf level crossings with all lights and sound already integrated rather than having to build it yourself.
I do see certain "cottage industry" things made but these are loads, scenery etc. If I had the funds I'd seriously be considering a 3d printer now the price has almost halved.

Thanks for the replies so far. Although a personal soloution hasn't been found as yet, I do think we are making progress and highlighting the issue for others. :)
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby End2end » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:33 pm

After closer inspection the GMR couplings are slightly different from the Dapol ones but still have the "pull it off then pull it out" type.
I'll take a photo later and post it so they can be seen side by side.
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby End2end » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:07 pm

Here's the coupler comparison photos.
First up the Dapol coupler
DapolCoupler.JPG
DapolCoupler.JPG (27.32 KiB) Viewed 836 times

And secondly the GMR coupler
GMRCoupler.JPG
GMRCoupler.JPG (28.38 KiB) Viewed 836 times

You can see my first confusion, they look almost identical to the (wait for the pun!).....unTRAINed eye. :lol:
Those rusty wheelsets are going to need changing before that wagons gets on the track. :?
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby End2end » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:43 pm

AH HA!!!!!!!!!!
Well instead of emailing Dapol I telephoned them after finding out they also make wagon chassis and the synopsis is.... THERE IS A DIRECT REPLACEMENT 10 FOOT CHASSIS FOR MY OLD WAGONS! :D :D :D
The WCHASS10
http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=prod ... uct_id=106
"An unpainted 10ft OO Gauge Chassis. Will fir Dapol's 4, 5, 7, 8 and 9 standard plank open wagons and various vans."

They also do two different 9 foot chassis, an 11 foot chassis and a chassis for a 21 Ton hopper for those wishing to convert to newer couplings / chassis's.
They are -
WCHASS9B OO Gauge 9ft - An unpainted 9ft OO Gauge Chassis. Will fir Dapol's 7 plank 9ft W/B open wagons.
WCHASS9C oo Guage 9ft - An unpainted 9ft OO Gauge Chassis. Will fit Dapol's Rectangular Tank.
WCHASS11 OO Gauge 11ft - An unpainted 11ft OO Gauge Chassis. Will fir Dapol's Cattle Wagon.
WCHASSHOP 21 Ton Hopper - An unpainted OO Gauge Chassis. Will fir Dapol's 21 Ton Hopper.

I am going to buy 1 and if it's all ok I will buy more as a lot of my Dapol's are 7 planks so are all the same size. I may even remove it and see if it fits the GMR wagons too :).
Is an easy soloution on the horizon.........or is that just the end of the tunnel? :lol:
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 11820
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:53 pm

E2E the history the various models still in production after many years started with the acquisition of Hornby Dublo by Triang in the sixties. At the time HD had some well made (by the standards of the time) rolling stock bodies mounted on rather dire chassis. Triang really weren't interested in the Hornby models, just the name and so they allowed G&R Wrenn (one of their subsidiaries) to do what they could with the HD tooling. They sporadically release various models with just a tensionlock coupler fitted rather than the HD/Peco knuckle design. Then both Airfix(GMR) and Palitoy in the guise of Mainline came on the scene and started to release two new ranges, both with better detailing and finish than Triang-Hornby who had already started on their practise of flogging their old warhorses.

Meanwhile Kitmaster who had been producing some excellent plastic body kits grew rapidly then flopped, leaving it's owners (Rosebud) with the tooling and no further interest in the market. Both GMR and Mainline grew had some success, then withdrew from the market, at which point Dapol came along, had great success in reviving the Airfix railway kits, managed a last minute purchase of Kitmaster tools after many had been destroyed, took over the rolling stock tooling which Wrenn had been using and started turning out what had been Hornby Dublo wagons on improved chassis. Then they went on to take over the GMR range and added some locos which probably had been in development under Airfix .

At this point Triang Hornby was starting to look sick and Dapol overreached themselves by diversifying into N guage. A deal was done Dapol's N gauge developments were funded by Triang-Hornby's purchase of Dapols 00 stuff. Which if you can follow the thread included some of the tooling that Triang had given (for free) to G&R Wrenn. Triang wen't belly up, and a management buyout under the name of Hornby Hobbies took over their railway business. Doesn't it all get complicated?

Mainline's models were being turned out on a small scale by Replica who got this outfit called Bachmann to actually do the production. Bachmann saw the opportunity bought the rights to the old Mainline tooling and Bachmann Branchline was born.

Through all of this one item was a problem, the tensionlock coupling. The original tensionlock was a registered design with the rights held by Triang. Nobody was keen to take on Triang in court so they all tried to produce their own, slightly different versions of it. Eventually Hornby was forced to produce a smaller version just slightly different to the one that Bachmann were using, and Dapol having bought bits from all over the place ended up with a similar one on a variety of fixings and finally they all integrated the NEM pocket into their own designs.

How to make such a simple device ridiculously complicated.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby End2end » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:01 pm

Thanks for the concise history Bufferstop. :) Indeed very complicated !
I received another limited edition Dapol wagon yesterday and although it is the newer style with the NEM pocketed couplings it droops a lot. I'm thinking some under the screw should hold it up.
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 11820
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:35 pm

The combination of the NEM pocket with a flexible or swivelling mount doesn't seem to have been particularly well done by anyone! I've used the Bachmann coupler, rigidly connected to the wagon floor, so that the curved line of its leading edge is part of an arc which reaches the front faces of the buffers. For bogie stock I either mount them on the end of the bogie or on an extension plate that swivels with the bogie so that the coupler is just ahead of the buffers as it swings from side to side. Set up like that they are happy down to 18" radius curves and propelled at a sensible speed cope OK with a reverse curve formed of two Peco short points in a crossover. The gaps between my coaches aren't noticeably worse than the various close coupling systems, so droopy NEMs are soon candidates for a bit of surgery.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

GWR_fan
Posts: 4794
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby GWR_fan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:23 am

To compound the situation, this morning, looking through my Hornby, ex-Airfix/GMR/Dapol type slimline couplings with the keyhole type fixing, I have noted that there are at least three types of keyhole tang mount. One is the typical Hornby model based on the old Airfix/GMR coupler, having the thin scroll shaped moulded 'springs'. Second, origin unknown but possibly Dapol, the keyhole tang has no centring moulded 'springs'. Third type has the keyhole tang mount with two thin straight moulded legs, one each side, that double back parallel to the coupler head.

The latter two work like a charm, while the first, the Hornby model, the hook remains elevated and will not automatically descend and has to be manually actuated. This causes numerous uncoupling moments in operation. Any movement of the coupler loop causes the hook to raise and thus disengage the adjacent coupler.

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby End2end » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:07 pm

End2end wrote:Well instead of emailing Dapol I telephoned them after finding out they also make wagon chassis and the synopsis is.... THERE IS A DIRECT REPLACEMENT 10 FOOT CHASSIS FOR MY OLD WAGONS! :D :D :D
The WCHASS10
http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=prod ... uct_id=106

I have tried fitting the chassis to the older wagon today and .......... IT FITS! :D

1 word of caution though is that it does not come with the chassis weight.
I will still need to put something above the screw to lift the coupler mechanism (perhaps a small bit of plasticard) before changing the coupling hooks to Bachmann ones for my BK uncoupling method but I can now see the ......wait for the pun.......... view over the boiler....... of this problem :lol:
Now I need to buy more I looked again at the Dapol site and the cheeky sods have just put them up by a pound since my order on 20/09/16 - 3 days ago!!

Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 4551
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby End2end » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:54 pm

A quick update on this.
After Dapol put thier prices up I checked elsewhere and found Hattons to have 8 in stock and cheaper @ £5.50 each. I bought 5 and have converted the wagons I needed changing.
http://www.hattons.co.uk/36655/Dapol_Wc ... etail.aspx
All wagons are still "in the works" as it were as I have not had time to work out how or what to change so I can use Bachmann non ferrous ones.

Here's a picture of the Dapol WCHASS10 coupling that comes with the new chassis's.
WCHASS10Coupling.JPG
WCHASS10Coupling.JPG (51.61 KiB) Viewed 724 times

The screw holding the pocket on is hidden in the picture under the axle. Does anyone have an idea how I could do it and what replacements I will need?
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
thebritfarmer
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:46 pm
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Contact:

Re: Coupling advice and replacements needed

Postby thebritfarmer » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:04 pm

Not sure if this will be of any help. I believe these are a replacement for the airfix couplings.

http://www.hattons.co.uk/27126/Hornby_R ... etail.aspx
All Aboooooard !!


Return to “General Model Railway Discussion / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest