DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

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PinkNosedPenguin
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby PinkNosedPenguin » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:51 pm

End2end wrote:
BananaRepublic wrote:The Lenz Standard+ you mention, is available for €18.25 (approximately £13.22) + p&p
More...
Lenz Silver+ 8 Pin for £17.75
Lenz Silver+ 21 Pin for £18.10
If taking advantage of the low prices, ordering 5 or 6 at a time will usually mean Free p&p.

May I ask where please BananaRepulic as I need them.
Thanks
End2end
For N gauge the Lenz silver mini (6 pin) is generally accepted to be one of the best - but I've never seen it at much less than £30 - have you by any chance :?:

ParkeNd wrote:Then 36 locos to be chipped at £34 each fitted by say Wickness = £1224.
Any locos with a 6-pin socket (probably at least 75% of your fleet?) can be fitted by you in about 2 minutes. If you had gone DCC from the start, and fitted a decoder to each loco as you purchased it, you would probably have about 28 chipped locos for the same cost as your 36 un-chipped ones - which is probably plenty for your size layout (not withstanding that you would be running more simultaneously with DCC!!!)

BananaRepublic
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby BananaRepublic » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:37 pm

PinkNosedPenguin wrote:For N gauge the Lenz silver mini (6 pin) is generally accepted to be one of the best - but I've never seen it at much less than £30 - have you by any chance :?:


Hattons list the Silver Mini at £29.
The (continental) European price is €29.99, which is around £21.50 at todays conversion rate.

If ordering online, there's no difference in ordering from Hattons and ordering from say for example, a reputable German retailer.
Delivery times are usually similar, or a day or two longer at the most.
Free p&p above a minimum theshold.
Order by credit card and have the same level of protection.




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PinkNosedPenguin
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby PinkNosedPenguin » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:07 pm

BananaRepublic wrote:
PinkNosedPenguin wrote:For N gauge the Lenz silver mini (6 pin) is generally accepted to be one of the best - but I've never seen it at much less than £30 - have you by any chance :?:


Hattons list the Silver Mini at £29.
The (continental) European price is €29.99, which is around £21.50 at todays conversion rate.

If ordering online, there's no difference in ordering from Hattons and ordering from say for example, a reputable German retailer.
Delivery times are usually similar, or a day or two longer at the most.
Free p&p above a minimum theshold.
Order by credit card and have the same level of protection.

Banana, that is a very good point :idea:
I just checked out ModellBahnShop and I could buy FOUR silver mini's post free for €120 which is less than THREE from eHattons. Many thanks for the tip . . . :D

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pete12345
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby pete12345 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:26 pm

bike2steam wrote:
b308 wrote:Going back to that Playstation analogy... The simple question for those of us who already use DC is simply "Why change"?
Would we get a return on our money that justifies the massive extra cost both in money and in time to fit the decoders (remember older locos have to be hardwired which isn't always easy)... The simple answer for me is "No it's not", the supposed gain (and that supposed gain is extremely debatable) is minuscule.
I enjoy new technology but not simply for the sake of it which is how I regard DCC at the moment... Perhaps things may change in the future, that's something i can't answer and doubt anyone else can...


Exactly, I wholeheartedly agree, I have a tried, and trusted ( bespoke) DC system that works perfectly, and can't be improved upon, even by DCC, when running one loco ( per controller) at a time, and that's all I need. So as I said in my first post on this thread 'if it aint broke....'. But there is one other point to add, I also run kit built tank locos where there is no room for additional 'gubbins' - and I aint gonna replace 'em !!!!


It is definitely a decision that has to be weighed up for each modeller. If you already have an extensive collection and an established layout that does everything you want, there's honestly little to be gained by converting to DCC that would justify the expense of conversion. But now we're starting to see train sets with DCC controllers, I think there will gradually become a greater proportion of DCC users from the outset compared to 'converts' like me.
Once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a few drops of rain...

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Bufferstop
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:03 pm

Wow! In one post 3 members all in the same position as myself, pete12345, bike2steam and b308. When starting the re-incarnation of my layout, following a major rebuild on the house, eight years ago, I seriously considered, restarting with DCC. Eight years ago there were no or very few budget priced decoders, all of the control units that seemed to offer what I wanted were at the top end of the price range, I had no interest at all in controlling signals and points any way other than mechanically, I had a collection of non DCC ready locos, new baseboards to build and additional track to purchase and lay. Having just almost totally rebuilding a house, DCC just wasn't going to happen. By now of course I have even more locos that would need converting, most of them home built 0-4-0 tanks, bodies stuffed full of lead and open back cabs, challenging to chip to say the least. Nice to be in the company of others who for similar reasons even though persuaded aren't converted. Luddites, not.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
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pete12345
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby pete12345 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:30 pm

Bufferstop wrote:Nice to be in the company of others who for similar reasons even though persuaded aren't converted. Luddites, not.


Ah, but I am a convert to DCC ;) In my situation, I didn't have many locos to convert (aside from things like a Hornby HST which I have nothing like enough space to run properly) so for me it was better to go DCC now rather than wait until later. Everyone's situation is different though. If you like DC and have a large collection, stick with it.
Once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a few drops of rain...

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Peterm
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby Peterm » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:17 am

Not a Luddite Bufferstop, just horses for courses. I wouldn't want to go back to DC, but I certainly wouldn't knock those that use it or try to convert them because I thought they should change.
Pete.

b308
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby b308 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:01 am

Peterm wrote:I certainly wouldn't knock those that use it or try to convert them because I thought they should change.


If only some other DCC Users were so enlightened! :wink:

UrbanHermit
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby UrbanHermit » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:25 am

Well, here's another one. I'm a firm believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and if I had an established DC layout that worked well and met all my needs I'm sure I wouldn't want to change.

As it is, I got my foot in the door of this hobby via a DCC trainset bought for my son. I have a small fleet of locos chipped one by one as they were bought or bought already chipped, so that expense has been spread out enough not to hurt, and I'm not keen on any more wiring than necessary.

I'm always a bit leery of evangelism in any field, so no, I'm not out to convert anybody, just happy with my own choice.
"I fell out of favour with heaven somewhere, and I'm here for the hell of it now." (Kirsty MacColl)

ParkeNd
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby ParkeNd » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:48 am

I tend to agree with PNP. It would be interesting to know what Marcus (the OP) has decided - so what do you think Marcus?

The discussion has been interesting though - what future would there be for Forums if the stock answer to such queries was "There is a range of options. You should pick the option that appeals to you. The only thing that matters is that you have fun." :D

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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby b308 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:05 am

bike2steam wrote:
BananaRepublic wrote:Also for anyone starting out in "serious" modelling;


If you could, please, define 'serious modelling' in your view ?? 8)


I'm still waiting with fascination for BR's answer to this one...


After all I thought I did serious (but enjoyable) modelling but obviously I'm somehow mistaken as I don't do DCC... :)

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Catweasel
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby Catweasel » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:58 pm

I'm back in the hobby after many moons away. I chose DCC because it's the way forward. Wiring chips into loco's is easy enough and fine tuning of the performance is brilliant. No more 100 mph spuds! My loco's are all OO gauge tiddlers, and sound, or lack of, is not an issue. No one does sound files for the likes of a Gardener or Ruston diesel and the loco's don't have room anyway. If it was under the baseboard and followed the loco, then maybe.

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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby b308 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:15 pm

Catweasel, "wiring chips to locos" is not "easy enough" - it depends on the loco you are trying to wire up and how they are set up in the first place, sweeping (and inaccurate) statements like that are not a all helpful for anyone thinking of changing from DC to DCC...



I thought back to my earlier post and felt I was being a little cruel on BR... The thing he (and CW?) need to remember is that Model railways are not like the latest computer or video game, having the latest technology doesn't mean that is "the way forward"... The simple answer is that it expands the scope of Model railways but is NOT a means to an end...

For me in narrow gauge 3D printing is the Way Forward, as it allows us to get models of locos and stock that just wouldn't be possible before other than scratchbuilding... Also the use of Laser Cut kits which means that manufacturers can do low number runs and don't have to rely on high sales before considering producing a model... Both of those, and other, innovations are just if not more important to Model railways as DCC...

Control of locos using analogue has also been revolutionized over the past few years and the latest controllers are on a par with the latest DCC, but different, if you are only used to controlling your stock with a Duette or Hornby/Bachmann controller then you will have not even tried such things as PWM controllers, used by many DC users, and perhaps not realise just how far things have come...

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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby shaunster » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:30 pm

While you make some good points b308, you have not said anything that tells me DC is better than DCC. Perhaps the advantages of dcc are not worth switching over an established DC setup for but what is your view on starting from scratch? If you had no stock and just entering the hobby which would be your choice then?

As for wiring up chips, it's not all straight forward. While many are easy, others are quite a daunting task and require significant work especially in the smaller gauge where there's less space available. Most new locos it's simply the case of removing a blanking plug and inserting your chip though.

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End2end
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Re: DCC or DC? What to do, what to do.

Postby End2end » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:42 pm

I think a note should be said about the TIMING of the choice of control.
Would I change to DCC if I had a reliable working DC setup? Probably not.
Would I choose DCC over DC for starting out? Probably.
Would I choose DCC over DC if I was building a new layout with lots of older loco's. Probably not due to the high cost of conversion.
Just some thoughts.
Thanks
End2end
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