Why no dummy Class 20?

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steve70
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Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby steve70 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:04 pm

Seeing as most Class 20's operated in pairs, (in my era anyway), I find it strange that the likes of Bachmann have never created dummy versions.
Anyone know the reason for this?
It can't be lack of demand...

mahoganydog
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby mahoganydog » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:15 pm

Hi Steve,

Believe it or not Hornby Dublo made dummy versions but they are incredibly rare now. I think the reason for not making them today is how few people could use them realistically on a small layout with short trains.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:21 pm

DCC will have cut the demand for "dummies" as a proper pairing can now be made and split as needed!
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steve70
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby steve70 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:49 pm

Bufferstop wrote:DCC will have cut the demand for "dummies" as a proper pairing can now be made and split as needed!


Although I agree with you, I still think it was very rare to see a 20 operating on it's own. I only ever saw them in pairs and (when I get round to buying a couple) I'll only ever operate them as a pair.

wasleys
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby wasleys » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:06 pm

steve70 wrote: I still think it was very rare to see a 20 operating on it's own. I only ever saw them in pairs

Around Scunthorpe in the 60s and 70s they worked singly on trip working and the Gunness banker duty. I also recall them working singly on passenger trains north of Aberdeen in the summer of 63.

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stuartp
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby stuartp » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:05 pm

This has been raised with manufacturers in magazine interviews over the years, the reason is because the motor itself costs so little that the cost would be almost as much as the proper version. Most of the production cost is tooling and assembly, not components.
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

steve70
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby steve70 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:18 pm

stuartp wrote:This has been raised with manufacturers in magazine interviews over the years, the reason is because the motor itself costs so little that the cost would be almost as much as the proper version. Most of the production cost is tooling and assembly, not components.


Ahhh, so why don't Hornby put a motor in their dummy HST car?

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skyblue
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby skyblue » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:45 pm

steve70 wrote:Ahhh, so why don't Hornby put a motor in their dummy HST car?


Probably because they rarely run alone.

ParkeNd
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby ParkeNd » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:09 pm

skyblue wrote:
steve70 wrote:Ahhh, so why don't Hornby put a motor in their dummy HST car?


Probably because they rarely run alone.


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steve70
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby steve70 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:20 pm

skyblue wrote:
steve70 wrote:Ahhh, so why don't Hornby put a motor in their dummy HST car?


Probably because they rarely run alone.


Case closed :)

GWR_fan
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:35 am

One important reason is that a dummy loco would not be much less to purchase than a motorised unit. The dummy would need all the lighting circuits and power pickups of the motorised car and apart from motor and gears would be basically the same.

Would you pay just a few dollars less for a loco without a motor than with a motor?

steve70
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby steve70 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:40 am

GWR_fan wrote:One important reason is that a dummy loco would not be much less to purchase than a motorised unit. The dummy would need all the lighting circuits and power pickups of the motorised car and apart from motor and gears would be basically the same.

Would you pay just a few dollars less for a loco without a motor than with a motor?


Did you even read the thread? :o

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stuartp
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby stuartp » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:08 am

steve70 wrote:Ahhh, so why don't Hornby put a motor in their dummy HST car?


Because if you try to run it on DC with a powered power car at each end it all goes horribly wrong. You can get away with double heading on DC (sometimes) because the prime movers are directly coupled to each other so any minor mismatch in power results in minimal buffeting, the more powerful simply drags or pushes the less powerful around. If you try that with coaches between you either drag it off or concertina it on the bends.

The HST actually proves the point - current Hattons pre-order price for the power car plus dummy is just short of 200 quid - approaching double the price of a similarly specced Bo-Bo. If the dummy 20 cost as much as the powered one would enough people buy it ? Dapol sell dummy versions of some of their N locos for a lot less than the powered ones so it can be done, presumably Bachmann don't think it's worth the risk.

The interview was in Model Rail some time ago I believe. Mind you, they also said Blue Pullman was unviable so you may change their minds yet. Have you contacted them to ask ?
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

GWR_fan
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:20 am

steve70 wrote:
GWR_fan wrote:One important reason is that a dummy loco would not be much less to purchase than a motorised unit. The dummy would need all the lighting circuits and power pickups of the motorised car and apart from motor and gears would be basically the same.

Would you pay just a few dollars less for a loco without a motor than with a motor?


Did you even read the thread? :o



I read the thread yesterday, but then there was but a few responses so I did not read Stuart's response which is similar to mine as my response was based on the responses then posted not the intervening posts made earlier today. So what is the problem?

If you want a dummy loco then remove the motor from a motorised unit. Has that response been made previously?

Suzie
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Re: Why no dummy Class 20?

Postby Suzie » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:28 am

Since models nowadays have about the same haulage capability as the prototype if you are replicating a double headed train you will probably need both locos powered or your train will not be going anywhere.

HST power cars are sold as pairs. There is not much point in selling 20s as pairs when not everyone will need both. That said it was a hell of a job getting the second Lima 20 to make my DRS pair!


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