What is a new product?

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Ex-Pat
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What is a new product?

Postby Ex-Pat » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:56 pm

In: posting.php?mode=reply&f=3&t=45150&sid=2f5735811c9ec3ae6305af441b72d982#pr547242

Alex wrote: “Except for the three train sets and trainpacks that have already been announced presumably?”

Great potential scope for semantics/arguments here.

Some will argue that a new train set is a new product, whereas I would argue that if it uses products already available then there is not anything really new about it as you could have always bought the individual components and made up the set.

Similarly I can never get excited about re-liveried/ re-numbered/ re-named models as you could always re-livery (etc.) them yourself. Equally, to me, a re-vamp (e.g. new chassis) is merely a new version as opposed to a new product.

To me a new Bachmann/Hornby etc. product is a loco/rolling stock class that has not previously been produced in RTR form.

What’s your view?

(Apologies if this point has already been raised!)

GWR_fan
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Re: What is a new product?

Postby GWR_fan » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:24 pm

My opinion is that if the product has a different part number, or is a new livery or a car number change then that implies that it is different to any previously released item and thus a 'new product'.

In my 'normal' hobby, largescale, Bachmann in their Bbig Hauler' range have not released anything other than reliveries for over twenty years. They are still using the same tooling from almost a generation ago. Ask Bachmann and they will respond that they are continually releasing 'new product' in the range.

Of cause it all depends on the individual's point of view as to the definition of 'new'.


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Re: What is a new product?

Postby Bigmet » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:10 am

Part of the problem is an uncritical approach by the publications. 'New!' is too freely used, whether a completely newly tooled model, a significantly improved, revised or altered existing item, a relivery of an existing item, a renumber of an existing item in a previously issued livery.

I'd keep 'new' unqualified for a substantially all newly tooled model, the OP's 'new version' for changes to represent a significantly different prototype status such as pre and post rebuild, 'revision' for a significantly improved/altered model, and 'relivery', 'renumber' for what are essentially only paint or print changes.

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Re: What is a new product?

Postby luckymucklebackit » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:11 pm

I asked the question if the Fairburn 4MT tank would be brought back for another run (so not a new issue) and was told to wait until July.

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AndrewG
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Re: What is a new product?

Postby AndrewG » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:50 pm

For me 'new' implies something, be it an item of rolling stock or a locomotive, which has not been available before. Different liveries/numbers don't count in my book. How many 'new' A4s have we had, for example?
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tornado64
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Re: What is a new product?

Postby tornado64 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:36 pm

biggest problem is that it is all subjective and will differ to every individual , I'm also in the camp that it is not solely a new product as I have the ability to re number and re livery , but others without my ability would have a strongly differing opinion

likewise with train sets , yes you probably could buy the items separate and sets are often made up to shift stock that is harder to move but the sting in the tail is you would spend more money to buy the items separate

I often buy sets to save money on buying individually

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tornado64
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Re: What is a new product?

Postby tornado64 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:41 pm

AndrewG wrote:For me 'new' implies something, be it an item of rolling stock or a locomotive, which has not been available before. Different liveries/numbers don't count in my book. How many 'new' A4s have we had, for example?


how many of them when re named and numbered lose their value ??? a genuine factory release will practically always have more value , recently the great gathering set was on ebay selling for what worked out at about 400 quid per loco !! hard to see anything near that for self made ones !!

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Re: What is a new product?

Postby AndrewG » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:54 am

tornado64 wrote:
AndrewG wrote:For me 'new' implies something, be it an item of rolling stock or a locomotive, which has not been available before. Different liveries/numbers don't count in my book. How many 'new' A4s have we had, for example?


how many of them when re named and numbered lose their value ??? a genuine factory release will practically always have more value , recently the great gathering set was on ebay selling for what worked out at about 400 quid per loco !! hard to see anything near that for self made ones !!


Well, I think it was Heljan who released un-numbered diesel models (47?) presumably so that we could build up a varied fleet without having to wait for a 'new' model to arrive with an alternative number in three years time. I wonder how they fare on the used market.
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trainlover23
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Re: What is a new product?

Postby trainlover23 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:10 pm

I still can`t see the point of this post

andrewk
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Re: What is a new product?

Postby andrewk » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:33 pm

Technically a new SKU (stock keeping unit) is a new product, hence renumbered cars or reliveried count. As opposed to a new model which I would say has to be either of a type not previously produced or a previously produced type that has been reengineered, new moulds, new drivetrain etc.

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Re: What is a new product?

Postby mjb1961 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:46 pm

What is a new product ? It is something that hasn't been out previously .

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tornado64
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Re: What is a new product?

Postby tornado64 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:36 pm

AndrewG wrote:
tornado64 wrote:
AndrewG wrote:For me 'new' implies something, be it an item of rolling stock or a locomotive, which has not been available before. Different liveries/numbers don't count in my book. How many 'new' A4s have we had, for example?


how many of them when re named and numbered lose their value ??? a genuine factory release will practically always have more value , recently the great gathering set was on ebay selling for what worked out at about 400 quid per loco !! hard to see anything near that for self made ones !!


Well, I think it was Heljan who released un-numbered diesel models (47?) presumably so that we could build up a varied fleet without having to wait for a 'new' model to arrive with an alternative number in three years time. I wonder how they fare on the used market.


it depends on variables ( not everyone will do a decent job ) almost none will reach the same quality as factory numbering , granted there will be good ones but you simply cannot argue with todays factory offerings particularly regarding livery and markings printing

sure they will hold a value but I'd say never as much as a specific factory release of one loco in particular


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