Cargo Waggon

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andyguk
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Cargo Waggon

Postby andyguk » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:48 am

Does anyone know the significance of the Cargo Waggon wagons? I've never ever seen one out and about. Would they mainly be used at ports? are they even used at all these days? I can't help thinking they look American... maybe it's the silver :|

Image

Andy

Pennine MC
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby Pennine MC » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:53 am

First seen on British rails circa mid-'70s, quite probably initially via the train ferries at Dover and Harwich but may subsequently have been used on domestic flows if the owner was a hiring company. Common enough through the '80s but I've no idea where they are now, they may have been superseded by later vans. There's no particular US connection other than superficial appearance, in that the archetypal US boxcar is metal bodied.

andyguk
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby andyguk » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:58 am

interesting, thanks Pennine. I have a few Heljan models of these here but I wasn't expecting to come across them

Pennine MC
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby Pennine MC » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:47 pm

No probs Andy. This site is always worth a browse for wagon pics and basic info:

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferryvan

andyguk
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby andyguk » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:06 pm

ahh now I recognise some of the British ones on that website :D

What drives a manufacturer to produce certain branded rolling stock? There must be hundreds of locally and company branded wagons, trucks and vans etc but surely not all of them are covered. Is it solely by demand or is there a marketing theory behind it?

Pennine MC
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby Pennine MC » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:20 pm

Big question. Big, big question :)

In this instance, the company/livery is almost incidental - it happens to be a widely used wagon that somebody, somewhere saw a market for. As to 'traditional' private owners like the archetypal 13T coal wagon, I'd think people collect them largely because they like the look of them. That's a massive generalisation of course, not intended to stereotype anyone, but to go further, you might have to focus your question a bit.

rob d2
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby rob d2 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:27 pm

Very useful wagon !
Uk wise, we are talking paper, pulp, cement in bags, china clay at a minimum....

andyguk
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby andyguk » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:40 pm

rob d2 wrote:Very useful wagon !
Uk wise, we are talking paper, pulp, cement in bags, china clay at a minimum....


They do look rather robust wagons. I'm trying to recall if I've seen anything similar in shape and can only think of an EWS VGA sliding wall box van

Image

Pennine MC wrote:but to go further, you might have to focus your question a bit.


Hmmm let's take a few common well known commercial and local brands ... I can understand why Colemans, Kitkat, Roberstons and Buxton etc rolling stock would sell well. However as an example, what about this lot?

Image

Obviously collieries will be of interest to those wishing to re-create a locale within a coal mining era, but who chooses which collieries are branded?

I expect some local/commercial brands may be reproduced as limited editions, but again is this a decision by the manufacturer or do modellers have a say in what they next see on sale?

Pennine MC
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby Pennine MC » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:42 pm

andyguk wrote:They do look rather robust wagons. I'm trying to recall if I've seen anything similar in shape and can only think of an EWS VGA sliding wall box van


Same design influences, basically - relatively lightweight ally body and a large loadspace, easily accessed by a forklift for palletised traffics. The VGA is actually a BR design, they appeared in the early '80s as a development of an earlier line of air braked vans.



Hmmm let's take a few common well known commercial and local brands ... I can understand why Colemans, Kitkat, Roberstons and Buxton etc rolling stock would sell well. However as an example, what about this lot?

...

Obviously collieries will be of interest to those wishing to re-create a locale within a coal mining era, but who chooses which collieries are branded?

I expect some local/commercial brands may be reproduced as limited editions, but again is this a decision by the manufacturer or do modellers have a say in what they next see on sale?


I very much doubt that individual modellers would 'choose' specific collieries or the like, although they're as free as anybody to make suggestions to manufacturers. But there seems to be an almost insatiable demand for PO wagons of the type you've illustrated - it's certainly been going strong since the Airfix and Mainline RTR 7 plankers of the late '70s. And coal wagons are not just of interest at the colliery end - virtually all traditionally based layouts have a coalyard of some sort.

A small percentage of POs are commissioned by model shops, preservation groups or bodies like the NRM but mostly, I think manufacturers just use reference photographs to find reasonably attractive liveries that will sit well enough on their existing toolings.
Last edited by Pennine MC on Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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THE CHIEF
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby THE CHIEF » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:58 am

PO wagons... Ive always bought the on the basis of "oo... a blue one, that looks cool" I could have a scottish wagon on my kent coast layout but if I like the look of it i'll take it. My favorit incidentally is the yellow and black WOOD.C wagon :)

andyguk
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby andyguk » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:06 pm

thanks guys

I think I'd just been wondering whether modeller societies/groups ever lobbed, say Bachmann, for locally named rolling stock. I've come across a number of limited edition rolling stock which are associated with certain model shops so that does show some sort of influence over the manufacturer.

I have to say I've come across some beautifully branded, coloured and shaped models, models I'd may have bought solely for the way they looked, rather than their significance to any layout I may have been building at the time :)

I guess everyone has their own preference and manufacturers are quite savvy when it comes to knowing what will sell well

Pennine MC
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby Pennine MC » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:50 pm

andyguk wrote:I think I'd just been wondering whether modeller societies/groups ever lobbed, say Bachmann, for locally named rolling stock. I've come across a number of limited edition rolling stock which are associated with certain model shops so that does show some sort of influence over the manufacturer.



I wouldnt call it influence Andy, it'll be a commissioned model and a commercial arrangement will be involved. I'm not privy to the details of such arrangements (nor should I be), but I would think it'll be a case of the shop asking 'how much will you quote us for 500 of these' and then having to pay for the batch like they would any other stock. That way, the manufacturer takes very little risk on the deal.

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flying scotsman123
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Location: err, down there round the corner... not that one!!!

Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby flying scotsman123 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:40 pm

my local preservation railway has some specially commissioned planked wagons with local names on (why my school should own a coal wagon I've no idea...) but at nearly £10 a pop, much easier to visit everyone's favourite auction site and get 10 for the same price :D
Image
Stone station in pre-grouping days, my layout. Workbench for other projects here.

andyguk
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby andyguk » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:46 pm

I guess there's nothing stopping anyone buying a rack of plain wagons and carefully detailing their favourite local factory, colliery, company etc... something that would fit neatly into their own layout. You could probably even forgo paints and print your own transfer these days

alan_r
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Re: Cargo Waggon

Postby alan_r » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:28 pm

To get back to the original post/question, I've seen these in South Wales in plain silver in a rake of about twelve, in the last 12months heading east through Port Talbot pulled by an EWS loco (Class 60 or 66 - I can't remember which. Both are common down this way, even the half-dozen class 60s still in service! :D ).
I also used to see them at the British Steel sidings at Trostre tinplate works near Llanelli back in 1996-9, so they could be for carrying tinplate pallets and tinplate coils, which are a bit more delicate than hot and cold rolled steel coil which are carried nowadays in BRA wagons.

The cargowaggons I think were also used in the '90s for car parts.
Here is a great site for pictures:
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47291_Radley_1992.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47323_Swin ... s_1994.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47309_Stroud_1996.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47314_Harbury_1991.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47007_Cropredy_1989.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47225_Blanchworth_1989.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47367_Wolv ... n_1994.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47219_High ... n_1993.htm
http://www.hondawanderer.com/47098_Charfield_1989.htm

... so for modelling, it looks like you can use them from BR blue right up to present-day (EWS and DBS) :)
Alan


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