Baseboard frame

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crazypotter
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Baseboard frame

Postby crazypotter » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:31 pm

Hi all. Have finally got my ply top for my baseboard. I now want the build the frame separate the pop the ply on top. What timber dimensions would you recommend for the frame?. I was thinking 3 " X 1 or 2" X 1, then using the same for a couple of bracing pieces underneath. Only a small layout initially about 6 X 3. Many thanks.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 pm

The deeper the frame the better, the thickness of it is far less important. My baseboard is 6mm ply with 150mm deep sides and cross members. The ends are 12mm ply, all joints reinforced by 18mm square blocks. You could use nominally 3"x1" timber for the frame provided you can find it in straight/true lengths without splits or heavy knots. The ply is lighter and more consistent.
Another advantage of the ply is a good supplier will cut it for you, two long cuts provide the top and the sides with no effort on your behalf. Ding the same cuts yourself with a hand held circular saw is likely to be far less accurate.
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crazypotter
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby crazypotter » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:09 pm

Thanks Bufferstop. Bearing in mind it is a small layout, I was just going to put in a couple of batons underneath from side to side. My carpentry skills are minimal to say the least!. Would this be strong enough support?.

mahoganydog
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby mahoganydog » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:22 pm

Hi Crazypotter,

I use CLS timber for my frames (63mm x 38mm) though larger sizes are made. Main reason was that it has a radiused edge so when I hit my head on it it hurts less... As long as it is a straight bit to start with it doesn't warp or sag as 2x1 will. If it was me building a 6x3 frame I'd build two 3x3 one with two pairs of legs one on the other. Levelling feet are a good idea; I have a captive nut in the legs on mine and 38mm feet.

Jim
In a world of fences and doors who needs windows and gates?

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Mountain
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby Mountain » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:45 pm

With a permanent layout 2x1's are ideal with 3x2 or 2x2's for legs depending on the baseboard weight and where used.
For portable layouts you need a different approach as things can get heavy quickly. I suggest thinner but wider lengths for the outer frame and thin small pieces if cross supports are needed?
My approach for my portable layout is quite different from my approach for a permanent layout in the materials used. (Be aware that most of the wood I used in the portable layout was rescued from various sources, from wood washed up on the beach to the remains of bunk beds).
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b308
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby b308 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:59 pm

One question I can't see having been asked is about the use of the layout. Is it going to be fixed in one place or are you going to be moving it around? The bigger the bracing and frame, the heavier it is...

I'd also echo the comments about where the wood comes from. Don't buy from the big DIY stores, their stuff is rubbish. Go to a proper timber merchant if you can find one or an independent DIY place, also check the wood for "straightness"...

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Bufferstop
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:11 pm

What you are trying to achieve is a flat board that stays flat in use, and if portable, whilst being moved. The biggest enemy of your track and scenery is flexing, the frame work is what gives the resistance to flexing. Mountain splits his 6x3 into two 3x3, effectively doubling the ratio of depth to length. It also makes it far easier to carry around. 6x3 is basically a door, try taking a door through doorway on your own then fasten lots of delicate bits to one face and try doing it again. That's a game I decided I wasn't prepared to play.
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HarryR
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby HarryR » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:04 pm

crazypotter wrote:Hi all. Have finally got my ply top for my baseboard. I now want the build the frame separate the pop the ply on top. What timber dimensions would you recommend for the frame?. I was thinking 3 " X 1 or 2" X 1, then using the same for a couple of bracing pieces underneath. Only a small layout initially about 6 X 3. Many thanks.


If you need to move it for access, or to relocate it, at some point, then lightness could still be important even if it doesn't need to be fully portable.

Edit:
Apologies, just noticed b308 has already made a similar point

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Mountain
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby Mountain » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:19 pm

Bufferstop wrote:What you are trying to achieve is a flat board that stays flat in use, and if portable, whilst being moved. The biggest enemy of your track and scenery is flexing, the frame work is what gives the resistance to flexing. Mountain splits his 6x3 into two 3x3, effectively doubling the ratio of depth to length. It also makes it far easier to carry around. 6x3 is basically a door, try taking a door through doorway on your own then fasten lots of delicate bits to one face and try doing it again. That's a game I decided I wasn't prepared to play.

Actually an inch or two short of 7' by 2' wide when the two boards are set up together. I can get away with a narrow layout as I'm running narrow gauge in 7mm scale.

crazypotter
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby crazypotter » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:20 pm

At some point it may need to be moved. Two small boards joined together is a good idea. Is it an easy task to be able to make sure the fixed track lines up properly again when the boards need to be rejoined?.

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Mountain
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby Mountain » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:51 pm

Two main ways. One is by using short pieces of track you can slot in across the join which you leave lose and unballasted. The other way is to solder the track to a wide PCB sleeper and nail it between the two boards. Then with a minidrill and a cutting disc start cutting through both the rails and the PCB base.
A similar method is to solder the rails to screws.

I will look for a PIC of the PCB method on my layout. I use hinges that have the central bit tapped out, and a new piece of metal a similar diameter is inserted so when it is pulled out, the hinge sections separate. I hope this explains one method clearly. The dark colour round one of the sleepers is superglue to make sure nothing moves, as one of the sleepers was a bit thinner then I had planned.
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Emettman
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby Emettman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 am

crazypotter wrote:Is it an easy task to be able to make sure the fixed track lines up properly again when the boards need to be rejoined?.


Pretty much, especially when the tracks cross at or near 90 degrees.

One tip: make the join first.
line up the two end pieces and clamp them together.
Drill through twice, holes well apart. (position not critical!)
Insert brass dowel and socket pieces.

No matter how odd the hole positions, they will match!
This is much easier than trying to align two full-built boards.

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby 4472 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:55 pm

We put together an 8 x 4 baseboard all one piece. It will never be moved from it's location. We attached 8 IKEA adjustable legs, with the flange plates glued on (the supplied screws were too long for the 12mm plywood) using Gorilla glue. I laid an oval and did a test run which was too loud for the missus in the next room. After a lot of searching around we ended up in the local Wickes and fell over some laminate wood underlay called Westco General Purpose Underlay which was 22.99 for a pack of 18 1.2 x .5 metres, and 5mm thick. Using double sided tape we cut and stuck one layer. This was deemed still a bit to loud so repeated with another layer laid at 90 degrees to the first. This cut out all the noise. We used pins to locate the track then dilute pva to secure it. Runs like a dream. As an extra we cut roads from the 1st layer then used the kitchen blender to crunch up some black plastic stones sold for fish tanks to make a tarmac and again mixed it with pva to make a sort of paste to pour in. Smoothed it off with a paint scraper
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Bufferstop
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Re: Baseboard frame

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:40 pm

The resonance of an 8x4 is going to be significantly greater than 2 4x4s, another argument for splitting larger boards don into smaller sections.
When it comes to crossing joins in boards the advice is to try to cross at right angles. If a skew crossing is unavoidable make a removable section.
lay track across the join, fix the rails down to about 60mm either side of the join, then cut through the rails with a slitting disk in a rotary tool.
Undercut the rail fixings at either side as you would for fitting rail joiners, Undercut on the removable bit sufficient to slide rail joiners completely onto the rails at both ends. Stick the sleepers to a strip of 10thou plasticard (helps to stop them breaking off, and later holds your ballast in place). Put the removable piece in place and slide the rail joiners onto the fixed track by pushing them with a small watchmakers screwdriver. If you ever try to lay a crossing at a shallow angle with rails pinned at the board edges, you'll soon realise why this way is better.
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