Are these semaphore signals right?

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grs
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Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby grs » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:32 pm

I'm trying to get my head around semaphore signalling. Can someone clarify what signalling I should have at single track junction.
I know there was a huge variety of signals particularly early on but I'm aiming for LMS in the 1930s.
In the junction plan B goes to an end of line station, A is the second last station on the line and C is to a branch to a colliery. I think the image of two signals together is what should be seen by a train coming from the direction of A and the image of a signal semaphore signal should be seen by trains from B and C.
Is that correct?
Should there be something at the junction itself to indicate how the points are set?
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Mountain
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby Mountain » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:44 am

The second picture group of rhe junction signal is the one you need, and it should be positioned at point A on the bottom diagram or before you reach that position. In other words, it tells the driver to stop or proceed, and if proceed, it tells the driver the route selected. For smaller shunting movements a ground siignal can be used as well, but to get the gist of signalling, concentrate first on the main signalling. Be aware that due to train speeds, a distant junction signal would normally be required to give advanced warning of the display of the junction signal. However, due to the limited size of our little layouts, distant signals will probably be positioned way off the edges of our layouts!

grs
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby grs » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:57 am

I have read of the distances required for real railway, the signals would be in the next room if I did that!
So small indicators for shunting areas.
I thought there should be something for traffic coming from the colliery at C UP the line to station A.

Any suggested retails with a good selection?

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Mountain
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby Mountain » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:05 am

Not sure what the LMS used, though I do know the GWR used dolly signals. They were ground shunting signals and many are still in use today. Basically a disk with a red line (Or yellow in certain instances) where the disc is pivoted in the middle, and if the disc turns so the red line is horizontal it can't be passed, but if it is around 45 degrees, it indicates a proceed aspect. (These old signals were white with a red line when I worked on the railway. I can't think about my historic signals at the moment. I am thinking of the ones which still survive. I say this because on some old photos I have noticed black disc signals?)

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Bufferstop
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:43 pm

As you say distant signals would be in the next room. I only have "home" signals and starters on my layout apart from one distant signal which is in a shallow cutting on a curve so if you can see the distant signal you can't see it's home signal and vice versa.
No one has mentioned "home" signals so far. If a station is the end of a block, then there are two signals protecting it, the home just outside the station often where the box is situated and the starter which is at the other end protecting the entrance to the next block. Along with the signals at junctions they all have similar arms, red with a single white stripe. Distant signals tell a driver the state of the next home signal, giving him plenty of time to bring the train's speed down so that it can be stopped at the next signal. These are the yellow signal with a fishtail end and a black chevron behind it. Their lamps are different too, they have a red lamp as does the home signal and a yellow lamp instead of a green, to signify proceed at caution. You need a big layout to put distant signals a believable distance from their associated homes. If a line is leading to a terminal station and there is no possibility of a conflicting move taking place, no sidings or spurs where another loco might be, then the distant signal would always be on, as instead of a permanently on home signal a stop board tells the driver to stop here, so the distant signal will never show clear so it was frequently a fixed plank painted to look like a distant's arm, with a red lamp fixed on.
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grs
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby grs » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:04 pm

Another thing to consider, maybe, is who controls what. In my mind the station/signal box at B would be closest and controlling the junction with A some distance UP the line and colliery someone round the corner DOWN the line.
Think i'll do some reading maybe buy a few signals and see how they look.

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pete12345
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby pete12345 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:17 am

Bufferstop wrote: Distant signals tell a driver the state of the next home signal, giving him plenty of time to bring the train's speed down so that it can be stopped at the next signal. These are the yellow signal with a fishtail end and a black chevron behind it. Their lamps are different too, they have a red lamp as does the home signal and a yellow lamp instead of a green, to signify proceed at caution.


Erm... yellow and green lamps surely?
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby mahoganydog » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:02 pm

grs wrote:Another thing to consider, maybe, is who controls what. In my mind the station/signal box at B would be closest and controlling the junction with A some distance UP the line and colliery someone round the corner DOWN the line.
Think i'll do some reading maybe buy a few signals and see how they look.


Have a look at Ratio, they do several different LMS signal kits which can be motorised if needed. Their cat numbers 470 and 471 or if you're feeling very brave cat no 476 which also includes ground signals.

Dapol make ready made operating signals but these can have reliability issues.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Are these semaphore signals right?

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:08 pm

pete12345 wrote:
Bufferstop wrote: Distant signals tell a driver the state of the next home signal, giving him plenty of time to bring the train's speed down so that it can be stopped at the next signal. These are the yellow signal with a fishtail end and a black chevron behind it. Their lamps are different too, they have a red lamp as does the home signal and a yellow lamp instead of a green, to signify proceed at caution.


Erm... yellow and green lamps surely?


Wonder what I was on when I wrote that, mind you there's been a few who haven't spotted it.
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