Torn between my layout and trains

Any questions about designing a model railway layout or problems with track work.
ZacR
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Torn between my layout and trains

Postby ZacR » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:42 pm

I am new to this. Just started making a layout last year in August and now I've built it(on cheap and still in progress). Problem is I have a mallard and a flying scotsman and they don't run well on my layout. I have 2 other small locos all hornby and they run well on all 3 levels on my layout. I am torn between having to keep adjusting the landscaping and layout for the long locos and carriages and if I should just get rid of them 2 long locos. Some must have had to make similar choices or is it just me making it harder than it should be? Haha.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:48 pm

Guess what locos are shelf queen's in my display cabinet, an A4, a B1 4-6-0, a class 45, a 3+2HST and the APT prototype. In the in use cabinet the biggest loco is a GWR Hall, the rest 0-6-0 s and 0-4-0s steam and deisel, stored in the carriage sidings and movable fiddle yard are Mk1s and earlier first generation DMUs,a GWR flying banana. Lurking in its own locoshed is City of Truro, the celebraty visitor. My minimum radius is 18inches, and points are Peco short and Y.
The Mk1s overhang on the 18inch curves is a bit toylike so the curves are obscured by shallow embankments, an overbridge and a clump of trees. The coaches going around the curves look acceptable as long as the bogies and track can't be seen. If you have sentimental attachments to the big steamers promote them to display items, if you don't flog them. Over the last four or five years the number of small steamers and diesels has mushroomed. If you only have space for tight curves and short trains the choice is between small mainline, branch line or industrial. Or you could cop out of the choice and model a heritage line like I do.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
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ZacR
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby ZacR » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:11 pm

I am not very familliar with the types of locos so it had been a lot of searches. Lol.
Thank you for the ideas. I initially planned to have a depot kind of layout which would have let me display some locos that doesn't run on my layout very well. Later on I decided to change it all and basically now all the trains that are not running are hidden underneath. I have chosen to change the layout in favor of my interest in landscaping.

Btw it's funny how out of all the places that cat is sitting very comfortably on your layout.

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Chops
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby Chops » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:18 pm

Give me first refusal on the Mallard if you want to retire it. I run a Pacific type on and long coaches
on impossibly tight curvature and they never derail. Are you entirely certain that the track is perfectly aligned and level?
Does it derail in the same spot repeatedly? Sometimes just replacing an offending piece of track can solve the problem
perfectly, as if it never happened. It can be surprisingly hard to see warped and bent rail.

Perhaps many of us would like an aerodrome to set up in, but as real estate is a bit pricey in the
UK, and the US, we have to compress, compress, compress. I am, seriously, in highest regard
of how much UK modelers do with a fractional amount of space that US modelers consider "small"

Before you relegate your grand pieces to the shelf, review your track critically. It may just need a
little tweak or a shim. A bent rail, whacked with a track hammer during track laying can play havoc,
as will a snakehead in the rail joiners.

To whit:

https://youtu.be/p9TxD3L6agI

Be not faint of heart, some studied track examination may restore your fine Iron Ladies to perfect function. Look for
every warp, loose naile, bent rail, kinked joint, and you may be able to have your cake and eat it too. Failing that, I
want your Mallard.
I don't care what they say. I believe in Nessie.

ZacR
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby ZacR » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:42 pm

Hi Chops. Thanks for the reply. Yeah. I think i need to replace a track. The only thing is, the mallard derails on a part where no other locos does. And then an Airfix loco derails on another part that no other loco derails on. The reason why I have issues with the large locos is cos I have a lot of inclines and tight spaces. I have 3 levels on my layout.
I have not yet decided so the mallard will stay for now. Haha.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:57 pm

It helps to know a bit of history. When I was starting in the hobby around 1956 train sets came with curves roughly approximating to todays 2nd Radius. Loco wheels had wide treads and deep thick flanges to keep them on the track whilst negotiating the curves. Six coupled locos 0-6-0, 2-6-0, 2-6-2, 2-6-4 and 4-6-2, all had one thing in common the centre drive axle was fitted with wheels with no flange, or was undersized so that its flanges didn't touch the rails. Both Tri-ang and their competitor Hornby Dublo introduced a second track radius, these days we would call it 1st Radius. It was smaller and fitted inside the standard (2nd radius) curves, by dint of keeping the centre wheel flanges out of contact with the rails most of the above loco types produced at the time would hobble around the inner loop, but mainly it was only the 0-6-0s that could be used on it. Strangely at that time no one made an 0-4-0. Slowly over the years first Hornby the Tri-ang slimmed down the wheels and shaved some depth off the flanges and what could run on 1st radius got less and less. It was Hornby-Dublo's Castle Class which set the world on fire as it's wheels set a new standard in appearance. Reviewers called it the first ready to run scale loco, it wasn't, it was just a sight better than we had seen up till then. It definitely didn't go round 1st radius curves. There were cheers from the model shops and complaints from the toy shops. Hornby started doing over their range with new nearer scale wheels, some of them moulded in nylon, they were working towards switching from 3 to 2 rail like they should have done when they re-started after WW2.
Triang made some attempts at finer wheels, but didn't have to try too hard as Hornby couldn't sustain both 2 and 3 rail models and their owners Meccano Ltd sold out to Tri-ang's owners Lines Bros' who took the Hornby name and launched Tri-ang Hornby, which was basically the Triang range with the Hornby wheel standards. If you've never seen a Hornby Dublo model look out for locos from Wrenn, thats where the tools and stock from Hornby Dublo landed, and they went on churning them out to a diminishing clientele for many years.
Since those days RTR wheel standards have become even finer to the point that today most new models will run on code 75 rail (thats .075 inches tall) back then if it had been called code something it would have been code 126.
While this ever refinement of wheel standards what has happened to the rails it runs on, well for settrack the rail height has been reduced down to code 100, but the radii are still the old radius 1 and 2 now joined by the more generous radius 3 and 4, and you wonder why your bigger locos won't go round tight curves and steep inclines..
Perhaps for the sake of newcomers who don't know all this the legend "Needs radius two or bigger" should be engraved in the keeper plate as well as appearing in the instruction leaflet (that doesn't get read until something goes wrong.)
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
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ZacR
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby ZacR » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:28 am

Thanks for the history lesson. :)
The derailments are actually on 2nd and 3rd radius. I do have radius 1 on the layout which is the highest track but I only run the smaller locos with 4 wheels to those tracks. Even with pullmans they have no issue and never derail on any part.
I guess the long locos just have to stay on the lowest track which can be isolated.
I designed my layout so I can simultaneously run 2 trains both going up and down 2 levels on isolated tracks and also be able run 1 train that goes on all 3 levels.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:02 am

You need to get your eye down to track level and look along the rails, that's what the foreman plate layer would do, looking for kinks and sharp deviations. A small flat mirror is a useful tool to acquire as you can get the edge of it down to rail level. It's surprising what horrors it will reveal!
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

b308
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby b308 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:33 am

Do you have photos of the layout? I'm always worried when a beginner has more than one level, especially 3, even experienced modellers try to avoid too many levels!

ZacR
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby ZacR » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:47 am

IMG_20190618_122532.jpg

This is the side where the 3 levels are.
I have no issues running the smaller locos up to the top. They run nicely and smoothly.
I kinda already knew I won't be able to run the larger locos up but just to the 2nd level because of the gradient and also the 3rd level is using a 1st radius.
Last edited by ZacR on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ZacR
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby ZacR » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:12 pm

I don't what happens when you put an attachment. Is it suppose to appear below my reply? I can't see my previous attachment. Hopefully it shows this time.
Last edited by ZacR on Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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End2end
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby End2end » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:16 pm

Don't forget to hit the "PLACE INLINE" button when adding attachments. :wink:
End2end
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ZacR
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby ZacR » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:22 pm

End2end wrote:Don't forget to hit the "PLACE INLINE" button when adding attachments. :wink:
End2end

I can't find a 'place in line' button. There's an exclamation mark and when tapped says file too large and max size allowed is 2mb. But the file is only 1.8
I've tried it 3 times now.

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End2end
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby End2end » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:28 pm

It might be the actual dimensions of the picture.
You can quickly resize it and save it as a different file name as long as one side is 500 pixels or more.
I'll find the "how to" post and post the link shortly.
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
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St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

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End2end
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Re: Torn between my layout and trains

Postby End2end » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:30 pm

OK here's the quick resize link - viewtopic.php?f=42&t=53064&hilit=resize#p652047
And some further reading about adding pictures to posts..
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=53337&hilit=resize
Hope it helps :wink:
Thanks
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"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
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