DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Hello there,
Just started putting together a railway with my 11 year old son(great excuse!!). We'ce decided to go with a DCC setup and have the mixed freight pack.
We've chosen the layout marked "8/13 - Convelouted Out and Back Plus Oval" from the 2009 Hornby Track Plan book. The track is now pinned down and piers all in place, which was quite tricky. We then programmed the 2 loco's OK, whilst running on the outer loop, however when switching certain points, to access the inner loop, the voltage on the track is lost (short circuit??) and you can hear a very slight ticking noise?
In the plan there were 2 isolation track pieces R618, which I didn't fit as I've read that they wouldn't be required in a DCC layout.
The question is are they required for this layout and DCC in general? Or what else could be happening.
Cheers, IainMac
Just started putting together a railway with my 11 year old son(great excuse!!). We'ce decided to go with a DCC setup and have the mixed freight pack.
We've chosen the layout marked "8/13 - Convelouted Out and Back Plus Oval" from the 2009 Hornby Track Plan book. The track is now pinned down and piers all in place, which was quite tricky. We then programmed the 2 loco's OK, whilst running on the outer loop, however when switching certain points, to access the inner loop, the voltage on the track is lost (short circuit??) and you can hear a very slight ticking noise?
In the plan there were 2 isolation track pieces R618, which I didn't fit as I've read that they wouldn't be required in a DCC layout.
The question is are they required for this layout and DCC in general? Or what else could be happening.
Cheers, IainMac
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Without seeing the plan I am purely guessing at what it looks like from your description and you give the impression that the track runs back upon itself. If that is the case then you will need a reversing moduie which switches the polarity of the electricity supply. You should take a picture or post the track plan here on the forum and we should be able to sort you out....in a non neutering kind of way of course.
High towards the far post,Howard with a header,Hes done it!Steve Howard has scored for Leicester City,Bedlam here at the Walkers Stadium. the Leeds United players are flat out on the turf in utter despair. Leicester City are going to win again
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Thanks,
Here's an image of the trackplan.
Here's an image of the trackplan.
- Attachments
-
- TrackPlan.JPG (123.04 KiB) Viewed 4660 times
-
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:28 pm
- Location: Portishead
- Contact:
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
I'm not sure mate but could it be faulty track?
I have a dcc layout but I have'nt put it properly together because I'm useless.
Anyway welcome to the forum.
I have a dcc layout but I have'nt put it properly together because I'm useless.
Anyway welcome to the forum.
Favourite LMS (LNWR) Loco class-Bowen Cooke Claughton 4-6-0
Favourite GWR Loco class-Armstrong Metro Tank 2-4-0t or Churchward Star 4-6-0
Favourite LNER Loco class-Peppercorn A2 4-6-2
Favourite Southern Loco class-Bulleid Q1 0-6-0
Favourite GWR Loco class-Armstrong Metro Tank 2-4-0t or Churchward Star 4-6-0
Favourite LNER Loco class-Peppercorn A2 4-6-2
Favourite Southern Loco class-Bulleid Q1 0-6-0
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Looks like a reverse loop being caused by the diagonal track. Needs to be isolated from the main track with IRJ and powered by a ARM
I`m sure someone will have a nice piccy to explain better!
Bob
I`m sure someone will have a nice piccy to explain better!
Bob
Growing old is compulsary, growing up is optional!
ALL CLASS 50`S SHOULD BE CUT UP INTO SMALL PIECES AND USED FOR SOMETHING MORE USEFUL LIKE A PAPER-WEIGHT
ALL CLASS 50`S SHOULD BE CUT UP INTO SMALL PIECES AND USED FOR SOMETHING MORE USEFUL LIKE A PAPER-WEIGHT
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Thanks Guys,
What are IRJ and ARM?
Also do I need the R618's or not
Thanks, IainMac
What are IRJ and ARM?
Also do I need the R618's or not
Thanks, IainMac
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
If you are using the Hornby Select that came with your set your easiest solution will be to use the Hornby Reverse Loop Module http://www.hornby.com/hornby-dcc-135/r8238/product.html
You can use the R618's or isolating fishplates with the module. If you look at your track plan you will notice that when you trace the track on the raised crossover section the outer rail becomes the inner rail. This is what causes the short and explains why isolated rail sections are needed.
You can use the R618's or isolating fishplates with the module. If you look at your track plan you will notice that when you trace the track on the raised crossover section the outer rail becomes the inner rail. This is what causes the short and explains why isolated rail sections are needed.
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
bigbob wrote:Looks like a reverse loop being caused by the diagonal track. Needs to be isolated from the main track with IRJ and powered by a ARM
I was waiting for that Best to dispense with the abbreviations I thinkiainmac wrote:What are IRJ and ARM?
IRJs are Insulating Rail-Joiners - they are used instead of the metal ones to join tracks together where you want to isolate particular sections of track. From looking at the R618 track you mention it seems it does the same thing as it has a break in both rails and electrical contacts which you can connect either side of the break.
An ARM is an Auto-Reverse Module - it changes the polarity of the track to stop short circuits like the one you are experiencing. As others have already said, what you would need to do is either fit the 2x R618 tracks as the plan suggests, or alternatively fit isolating rail-joiners to BOTH rails at the places where the R618s should be, then wire up an auto-reverse module to supply the isolated part with power (it should come with instructions on how to wire it). It will change the polarity automatically as the train runs over it, only other way is to get into some complicated switches and wiring and you will also need to stop the train while you switch it, so the auto-reverse module will be worth it for the simplicity
Paul
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Thanks Guys,
Info is greatly appreciated. I have a few more questions.
I take it I can use insulating fishplates instead of the R618 isolating track sections?
In addition, I was also planning to run a power bus to supply power after reading some websites, but have a couple of questions regarding this.
1) Do I actually need a power bus? I was picking up 15.7V when metering towards the extremeties of the track plan.
2) Will this add complexity to my existing problem.
3) If I isolated the flyover section as required and supplied power from the power bus(if fitted) would this remove the R8238 requirement?
Regards, Iain...
Info is greatly appreciated. I have a few more questions.
I take it I can use insulating fishplates instead of the R618 isolating track sections?
In addition, I was also planning to run a power bus to supply power after reading some websites, but have a couple of questions regarding this.
1) Do I actually need a power bus? I was picking up 15.7V when metering towards the extremeties of the track plan.
2) Will this add complexity to my existing problem.
3) If I isolated the flyover section as required and supplied power from the power bus(if fitted) would this remove the R8238 requirement?
Regards, Iain...
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
You can use insulating fishplates instead of the R618 isolating track sections.
On a layout of your size DCC operation will be optimised with a power bus. Even though you measured 15.7V when metering towards the extremities of the track plan you will be amazed how that can drop off over time, particularly when the track moves with changes in temperature.
Utilising a power bus will not add complexity to your existing problem. The instructions with the reverse loop module are very clear and simple. You've only 3 pairs of wires to attach.
Isolating the flyover section on its own will not remove the R8238 requirement. The flyover section is causing the short. The reverse loop module will detect the short and change the polarity for you. Your loco will continue to run in its intended direction of travel. You shouldn't even notice it is there.
Note that I am assuming you are using a Hornby Select or Elite. The module will not work with certain other makes of controller.
On a layout of your size DCC operation will be optimised with a power bus. Even though you measured 15.7V when metering towards the extremities of the track plan you will be amazed how that can drop off over time, particularly when the track moves with changes in temperature.
Utilising a power bus will not add complexity to your existing problem. The instructions with the reverse loop module are very clear and simple. You've only 3 pairs of wires to attach.
Isolating the flyover section on its own will not remove the R8238 requirement. The flyover section is causing the short. The reverse loop module will detect the short and change the polarity for you. Your loco will continue to run in its intended direction of travel. You shouldn't even notice it is there.
Note that I am assuming you are using a Hornby Select or Elite. The module will not work with certain other makes of controller.
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Hello BlueSky,
Thankyou for the info - most informative.
Intriged by the role of the R8238 in the flyover section, is this basically a polarity invertor - or does it do more?
Regards, IainMac
Thankyou for the info - most informative.
Intriged by the role of the R8238 in the flyover section, is this basically a polarity invertor - or does it do more?
Regards, IainMac
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
Hello BlueSky,
I forgot to mention - its the select we are using.
Regards,
IainMac
I forgot to mention - its the select we are using.
Regards,
IainMac
Re: DCC Track Layout - Problems!!
That's what it is. When a train enters track powered by this module, if the polarity is currently reversed then the first wheel will short-circuit the track to the part of track on which the train is standing. The module will flip the polarity, and will do so extremely rapidly. It will do the same when the train leaves the track, shorting at the exit.iainmac wrote:Hello BlueSky,
Thankyou for the info - most informative.
Intriged by the role of the R8238 in the flyover section, is this basically a polarity invertor - or does it do more?
Regards, IainMac
That's all it does, but it does it really well.