What Track Do I need?

Any questions about designing a model railway layout or problems with track work.
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Artisan
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What Track Do I need?

Postby Artisan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:59 pm

Can anyone tell me where I can find online lists of manufacturer’s N gauge track part numbers. I have done some searching but have not been successful. I found online three layouts that would suit my plans for an end to end layout but the plans I have found only show track sections not suggested track part numbers. As a beginner I do not know track part numbers to be able to purchase the correct track and as I am on a budget and want to buy secondhand track to save on costs I need somehow to figure out what track sizes and shapes I will need. I have attached the plans to give an idea of what I want a first layout to look like. I haven't quite decided yet but I will be choosing one of the plans shown below.
Attachments
Simple Loop 4x1 c.jpg
Simple Loop 4x1 c.jpg (19.01 KiB) Viewed 403 times
Branch Line Terminus c.jpg
Ashburton Terminus c.jpg
Best regards,
Greg

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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby b308 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:48 pm

If you buy secondhand you have no way of knowing if the points will work, so you buy at your own risk. If you go onto the Peco website and look up N gauge track you will find the catalogue numbers for the various pieces. Bear in mind that there are different radius of points from sharp (9" set-track) upwards. For best looking trackwork I'd suggest you use 12" radius points and flexible track.

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Artisan
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Artisan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:55 pm

b308 wrote:If you buy secondhand you have no way of knowing if the points will work, so you buy at your own risk. If you go onto the Peco website and look up N gauge track you will find the catalogue numbers for the various pieces. Bear in mind that there are different radius of points from sharp (9" set-track) upwards. For best looking trackwork I'd suggest you use 12" radius points and flexible track.


Thank you for the information. I will have a look at the Peco site.
Best regards,
Greg

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End2end
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby End2end » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:56 pm

Just looking at those layouts you posted I personally prefer the last one but with a slight tweak that gives 2 longer platforms by moving the upper points to the left.
Excuse the crude picture.
Ashburton Terminus c.jpg
Ashburton Terminus c.jpg (22.28 KiB) Viewed 347 times

Highlighted points in circle with arrow showing new placement. The black lines represent the extended platform.
This, to me at least, gives more reasoning to the length of the run-around loop.
Thanks
End2end
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Emettman
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Emettman » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:00 pm

Artisan wrote:Can anyone tell me where I can find online lists of manufacturer’s N gauge track part numbers.


If you finalise on a plan I should be able to draw it in Anyrail which can display part numbers.

I see the style of station you are after but unless I am missing something they are all too long for your 4ft length, which also has to include a U curve to use the other half of the width to hold the fiddle yard.

I have drawn up a sketch which might suit. I've managed to avoid 9" curve#s and Peco Setrack points, but only by an inch, to 10" which is enough to make a significant difference on the curves, together with Peco's smallest electrofrog points which are a big step up from the setrack ones.

The main platform will hold 2 long carriages or three shorter (57ft) ones.
A range of different fiddle-yard designs would fit at the end of the U quite comfortably.

4x2n.jpg


What do you think?

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Artisan
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Artisan » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:17 am

End2end wrote:Just looking at those layouts you posted I personally prefer the last one but with a slight tweak that gives 2 longer platforms by moving the upper points to the left.
Excuse the crude picture.
Ashburton Terminus c.jpg
Highlighted points in circle with arrow showing new placement. The black lines represent the extended platform.
This, to me at least, gives more reasoning to the length of the run-around loop.
Thanks
End2end


Thank you for the amendment to the plan. I like the idea and think that it may be a better option giving more interest to the layout.

Thanks again.
Best regards,
Greg

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Artisan
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Artisan » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:31 am

Emettman wrote:
Artisan wrote:Can anyone tell me where I can find online lists of manufacturer’s N gauge track part numbers.


If you finalise on a plan I should be able to draw it in Anyrail which can display part numbers.

I see the style of station you are after but unless I am missing something they are all too long for your 4ft length, which also has to include a U curve to use the other half of the width to hold the fiddle yard.

I have drawn up a sketch which might suit. I've managed to avoid 9" curve#s and Peco Setrack points, but only by an inch, to 10" which is enough to make a significant difference on the curves, together with Peco's smallest electrofrog points which are a big step up from the setrack ones.

The main platform will hold 2 long carriages or three shorter (57ft) ones.
A range of different fiddle-yard designs would fit at the end of the U quite comfortably.

4x2n.jpg

What do you think?

Chris


Hello Chris. Thank you for the offer to draw the layout on your system that is really kind of you. I like the layout you have shown. I assume that the layout is for a board 4ft x 2ft which was my original idea but given the limited space I have I have decided to reduce first layout size to 4ft x 18 inches or possibly 4ft x 1ft. The plan that end2end sent me I like so perhaps you could reproduce that for me or something similar based the size I am going use.

Thank you again for your kind offer.
Attachments
Ashburton Terminus with changes.PNG
Best regards,
Greg

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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Emettman » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:09 pm

Artisan wrote:I have I have decided to reduce first layout size to 4ft x 18 inches or possibly 4ft x 1ft. The plan that end2end sent me I like so perhaps you could reproduce that for me or something similar based the size I am going use.

Thank you again for your kind offer.


Got you, I think. Or perhaps I haven't...

I found the original site for the drawing and it is in 00, for a station 6ft by 18", with the whole layout being at least three feet longer for the fiddle yard, which allows the trains to leave the station and be turned around or re-arranged.
Unless you are going to be confined to just shunting within the station something of that sort is a necessity.
A shunting layout serving an industry or a dockside is quite possible,with a minimal fiddle yard or even none at all, but it's a different target from a relatively standard station.

Can I ask how you were planning to run trains on the layout as shown?
That is, without a fiddle yard?

(in the modified, drawing. it would pay to swap the engine shed over to the shortened siding, leaving the bottom one as a goods siding.)

I think I can do a terminus with fiddle yard in 4ft x 18" in N, possibly x 15", maybe even by 12", but I will have to be a bit more unorthodox.

Can I ask why the 2ft wide isn't a good idea if you are planning on removing it when you want the surface for something else?
(4x2 will hang on the wall, like a picture, quite nicely.)

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Artisan
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Artisan » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:27 pm

Emettman wrote:
Artisan wrote:I have I have decided to reduce first layout size to 4ft x 18 inches or possibly 4ft x 1ft. The plan that end2end sent me I like so perhaps you could reproduce that for me or something similar based the size I am going use.

Thank you again for your kind offer.


Got you, I think. Or perhaps I haven't...

I found the original site for the drawing and it is in 00, for a station 6ft by 18", with the whole layout being at least three feet longer for the fiddle yard, which allows the trains to leave the station and be turned around or re-arranged.
Unless you are going to be confined to just shunting within the station something of that sort is a necessity.
A shunting layout serving an industry or a dockside is quite possible,with a minimal fiddle yard or even none at all, but it's a different target from a relatively standard station.

Can I ask how you were planning to run trains on the layout as shown?
That is, without a fiddle yard?

(in the modified, drawing. it would pay to swap the engine shed over to the shortened siding, leaving the bottom one as a goods siding.)

I think I can do a terminus with fiddle yard in 4ft x 18" in N, possibly x 15", maybe even by 12", but I will have to be a bit more unorthodox.

Can I ask why the 2ft wide isn't a good idea if you are planning on removing it when you want the surface for something else?
(4x2 will hang on the wall, like a picture, quite nicely.)

Chris


The confusion I have created just shows you that I don't know what I am doing! The reason I reduced the size of the board is because I have decided that I am going take my time building and getting my first layout as authentic as possible. So I have decided to leave the board in place so I can easily work on the layout and leave a small amount of room at the front of the bench of other uses when necessary. I hope this makes sense!
Best regards,
Greg

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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Emettman » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:03 pm

Artisan wrote:The reason I reduced the size of the board is because I have decided that I am going take my time building and getting my first layout as authentic as possible. So I have decided to leave the board in place so I can easily work on the layout and leave a small amount of room at the front of the bench of other uses when necessary. I hope this makes sense!


That's fine.
I hope I've got across that the trains do need somewhere to go, so that they can turn round and be re-arranged.
(excepting *some* pure shunting layouts, which be mainly for freight)

Let me talk you through this. which I've just sketched. 4ft x 18" (it might be possible to skim an inch or two off that width: it would have to be looked at in full size, but any more would start to hurt the layout in terms of scenery.)

4x2n2.jpg


The key is the dark blue line, which is a straight piece of track of train length which can take up four positions.
If a train leaves the station it drives onto that stretch and the track pivots to on of the light blue positions.
(bottom will be handiest if the train needs playing with: loco at other end, different goods wagons.)
The train can them be run forward into one of the grey storage sidings.
(I suspect the top one will mainly get used for storing odd special wagons: a couple of cattle trucks, a milk van, traction engine on a flat car...).
To deliver a train it backs on to the dark blue, which pivots to become the line to the station.
**This is an easy build**, and anything else takes up more space, which we don't have.

At the station there is just one platform, the similar item up and right is a loading bay and small goods shed.
The line below it could kink slightly upward and take an engine shed.
On the left is some sort of industry.
For a loco to run around its coaches the blue track must be in position as shown, where it will live when not moving a train from front to back.
(push-pull steam units and diesel passenger sets don't need to.)
The orange band is the scenic divide. It's probably a raised road, but there was at least one example of a station which popped straight out of a cliff very much as shown*, so that would be possible.

Chris

*Ramsgate harbour station is the probably the best-known,
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13496.0
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Artisan
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Artisan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:10 pm

Emettman wrote:
Artisan wrote:The reason I reduced the size of the board is because I have decided that I am going take my time building and getting my first layout as authentic as possible. So I have decided to leave the board in place so I can easily work on the layout and leave a small amount of room at the front of the bench of other uses when necessary. I hope this makes sense!


That's fine.
I hope I've got across that the trains do need somewhere to go, so that they can turn round and be re-arranged.
(excepting *some* pure shunting layouts, which be mainly for freight)

Let me talk you through this. which I've just sketched. 4ft x 18" (it might be possible to skim an inch or two off that width: it would have to be looked at in full size, but any more would start to hurt the layout in terms of scenery.)

4x2n2.jpg

The key is the dark blue line, which is a straight piece of track of train length which can take up four positions.
If a train leaves the station it drives onto that stretch and the track pivots to on of the light blue positions.
(bottom will be handiest if the train needs playing with: loco at other end, different goods wagons.)
The train can them be run forward into one of the grey storage sidings.
(I suspect the top one will mainly get used for storing odd special wagons: a couple of cattle trucks, a milk van, traction engine on a flat car...).
To deliver a train it backs on to the dark blue, which pivots to become the line to the station.
**This is an easy build**, and anything else takes up more space, which we don't have.

At the station there is just one platform, the similar item up and right is a loading bay and small goods shed.
The line below it could kink slightly upward and take an engine shed.
On the left is some sort of industry.
For a loco to run around its coaches the blue track must be in position as shown, where it will live when not moving a train from front to back.
(push-pull steam units and diesel passenger sets don't need to.)
The orange band is the scenic divide. It's probably a raised road, but there was at least one example of a station which popped straight out of a cliff very much as shown*, so that would be possible.

Chris

*Ramsgate harbour station is the probably the best-known,
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13496.0


Thank you for your hard work in producing the layout diagram. To be absolutely honest, being so new to railway modelling, I don't really understand a lot of what you have said. I think my problem is that I am becoming overloaded with taking in lots of information and finishing up being so confused that I am in danger of giving up the idea. I need to take this venture a step at a time. That is to start simple and once that is fully understood build on what I have learned. So the decision I have made is to keep it simple and start with a realistic end to end goods yard similar to those layout diagrams I previously posted where I can have a simple but interesting track layout. Learn form the principles of railway modelling based on the simple layout and concentrate on getting the overall layout looking realistic. I am in no rush and expect this project to take several months to complete. What I want is the pleasure of building a model railway but at the moment I am in danger of giving up.

If you perhaps could suggest a goods yard layout I would be very grateful but I would fully understand if you where to choose not to continue with the help.
Best regards,
Greg

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Mountain
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Mountain » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:43 pm

Dont worry. A good idea for a beginner is to just go out and buy a budget trainset and go from there. One can experiment by running trains on the track just to get to know how things work.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

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Emettman
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Emettman » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Artisan wrote: I am in no rush and expect this project to take several months to complete. What I want is the pleasure of building a model railway but at the moment I am in danger of giving up.

If you perhaps could suggest a goods yard layout I would be very grateful but I would fully understand if you where to choose not to continue with the help.


No trouble. That last layout will simplify into a goods yard with little trouble and lose a little width in the process.
(passenger platforms and station buildings tend to take up quite a lot of space.)


The most simple goods yard layout is known as an inglenook. It is designed to shunt goods wagons as a puzzle.
It just needs two points to give three sidings.
It uses one loco and and eight (different) goods wagons.
In 4ft there's room to do it in OO, though it can be done in a range of scales.

An example would be:
walkerly.jpg


For a good explanation of the inglenook idea, see here:
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/LittleBazeley.html

The larger goods yard below allows more different movements and has an off-stage area for storage of different wagons to give more changes.
It has a goods shed top right, an engine shed below (optional: without the engine shed the siding becomes a nice place to park a brake van)
On the left the top siding is for coal, and the lower siding has a loading bank so could have a cattle dock and serve a milk van and more.
It would work with one engine, but there is room for two.

It's come down to 16" wide, from the previous 18"
The scenic divide between on-stage and off-stage is now a railway line on a raised viaduct.
(That could be modelled as derelict)

4x2n3.jpg
4x2n3.jpg (35.33 KiB) Viewed 229 times


Chris

P. S. I'm not up to date on N locos, so I'd want to ask the N gauge modellers here: what's the best small shunter in N?
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Artisan
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Re: What Track Do I need?

Postby Artisan » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:10 am

Emettman wrote:
Artisan wrote: I am in no rush and expect this project to take several months to complete. What I want is the pleasure of building a model railway but at the moment I am in danger of giving up.

If you perhaps could suggest a goods yard layout I would be very grateful but I would fully understand if you where to choose not to continue with the help.


No trouble. That last layout will simplify into a goods yard with little trouble and lose a little width in the process.
(passenger platforms and station buildings tend to take up quite a lot of space.)


The most simple goods yard layout is known as an inglenook. It is designed to shunt goods wagons as a puzzle.
It just needs two points to give three sidings.
It uses one loco and and eight (different) goods wagons.
In 4ft there's room to do it in OO, though it can be done in a range of scales.

An example would be:
walkerly.jpg

For a good explanation of the inglenook idea, see here:
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/LittleBazeley.html

"The larger goods yard below allows more different movements and has an off-stage area for storage of different wagons to give more changes.
It has a goods shed top right, an engine shed below (optional: without the engine shed the siding becomes a nice place to park a brake van)
On the left the top siding is for coal, and the lower siding has a loading bank so could have a cattle dock and serve a milk van and more.
It would work with one engine, but there is room for two.

It's come down to 16" wide, from the previous 18"
The scenic divide between on-stage and off-stage is now a railway line on a raised viaduct.
(That could be modelled as derelict)

4x2n3.jpg

Chris

P. S. I'm not up to date on N locos, so I'd want to ask the N gauge modellers here: what's the best small shunter in N?
"

Thank you Chris. I really appreciate the help you are giving me. I like the layout plan that you have shown. As soon as I saw it I thought that was what I had in mind so I have decided that will be the layout I will build. I can see the potential in the layout. Some questions. I don't understand the significance of the track at the bottom of the layout. What is that for and how does the track work that is shown in blue? You mention possibly reducing the board down to 15 inches but if I keep it at 18 inches could I then expand the layout in the future? To help with the track laying can I incorporate flexible track or, as a novice, would I be better off using code 55 settrack according to the track parts list generated by AnyRail?

Thank you again.
Best regards,
Greg


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