Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Discussion on OO, and O gauge garden model railway design and construction. (scenery, track laying, electronics)
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Spavo
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Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby Spavo » Fri May 17, 2013 5:07 pm

Hello guys,

Thanks to many of the brilliant threads and layouts in this section I have managed to track down (groan) many of the answers to the questions of building an OO gauge layout outdoors.

I have one major consideration to make though as I live in Spain......the layout would be on a roof terrace with little or no natural shade so the obvious question from me is How Hot is Too Hot?

The maximum temperature I can expect in the summer up on the roof is 40 degree's, hot. And the minimum in the winter is about 6......

So although I think I can counter many of the problems associated with that sort of heat by storing the stock and loco's indoors when not in use, do you guys have any idea the of effects on any baseboard and track that type of heat would have?

I am asking as I need to consider whether to try and build a cover over the trackbed to protect the rails against the heat, obviously the winter isn't a problem in the slightest except there are less girls in bikini's about the place....

Any advice and info would be greatly appreciated.

Gav.
Watford FC For Me Since 1976

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Bufferstop
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Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby Bufferstop » Fri May 17, 2013 6:35 pm

I'd say 40 degrees is going to be way too hot for plastic sleepered track. Remember that 40 degrees is measured in the shade. (there's no way a thermometer can work consistently in direct sunlight). I have seen a specimen of polystyrene covered cable, where a bare coper wire lying across it in the sun, in the UK has been cut through to the inner conductors as if the wire were a soldering iron. I would think in terms of an outdoor indoor layout. A weatherproof permanent baseboard standing underneath a decorative pergola. A substantial cover which could be raised up to the underside of the pergola, equipped with lighting underneath it. So as the sun goes down, you can raise the cover, turn on the lights and away you go.
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Spavo
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Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby Spavo » Sun May 19, 2013 8:55 am

Thanks mate that's excellent info and advice, much appreciated and I'll certainly let you know how it goes when it comes about.

Again, many thanks for that..

Gav.
Watford FC For Me Since 1976

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StevieDay
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Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby StevieDay » Wed May 29, 2013 1:15 am

You'll also need to take into account thermal expansion of the rails. 6C to 40C is a large temperature range for model railway to cope with. As Bufferstop said, this is air temp. Metal exposed to direct sunlight will be significantly hotter, possibly 80C+.

If you lay track when its 6C, the themal expansion will cause the rails to warp & buckle. Also if you leave too large an expansion gaps when laying at higher temps, when the temp falls, you'll end up with large gaps between the joiners.

From some searching found the thermal coefficient to be 17x10-6m K-1........ This equates to .017mm per m of track per C.
So if you have a temperature range of 6 to 80C & 1m of track.
Then 0.017mm x 80-6C
= 0.017 x 74
= 1.26mm of expansion.

Try laying track on a cloudy day at a known temp & then you can calculate the required expansion gaps with a good degree of certainty. Also consider shorter track lengths as these will only require smaller expansion gaps.
Regards,
Steve

My Layout;- Rayne St, Fictional N-Gauge Layout viewtopic.php?t=30856

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Spavo
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Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby Spavo » Wed May 29, 2013 7:33 am

That is great advice Steve thank you... Sorry for the short reply due to phone but I'll reply properly from home later....

Gav.
Watford FC For Me Since 1976

faulcon1
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Location: Blue Mountains New South Wales Australia.

Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby faulcon1 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:53 am

I live in Australia and we are known for very hot summers with temperatures often over 40 degrees. On my 00 gauge line I have hinged covers painted white and on a 47 degree day I lifted one cover to see how hot the track was. Whilst I was roasting the track was only warm. The other reason I have hinged covers is because Australia is a land of parrots and they are natural chewers of everything. Cockatoos used to stand on the track work and attempt to pull the copper bonds off the sides of the rails. They never succeeded but did manage to rip the nickel-silver rails out of the plastic chairs. Even Peco says that their Streamlined range can stand outdoor conditions but that the track work cannot be expected to sustain prolonged periods of direct sunlight. So if you have covers for the summer weather in Spain you should be OK. Another plus point with the covers is that they keep the track work cleaner for longer so you don't always have to clean your rails before each running session.

Roy.

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Spavo
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Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby Spavo » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:01 am

Thanks for that Faulcon....

It looks like I have been pretty lucky so far in that my terrace that the railway is on has another terrace above it which is providing some shade during the day at times...this means that although some of the rails are in direct sunlight for an hour or two it's not all day so seems to be working out at the moment thanks to the expansion gaps mentioned previously.

So far it has been up to 32 degree's so it's looking ok......I'm not putting this layout in the layouts thread as it's not a full build, merely something simple to just run trains but I will post some pictures here later so you can see the general idea.....

Many thanks,

Gav.
Watford FC For Me Since 1976

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Spavo
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Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby Spavo » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:04 am

And Stevie....

I'm sorry I meant to reply properly before...thanks ever so much for your figures, I couldn't possibly know the numbers as you must be a nuclear scientist or something but I have used your figure to lay the track and affix to the baseboards....I simple matchstick cut to the correct width did the trick when joining the track and so far it's been so good.....

Many thanks for your help mate....

Gav.
Watford FC For Me Since 1976

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Spavo
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Re: Temperature Allowances For "OO" Outdoors...

Postby Spavo » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:20 am

So this is kinda where I am at the moment....

The baseboards are boat boards all sealed up 100% with a self adhesive foam tape as the track bed, I have ballasted throughout just because I prefer the look.....

The layout is a squashed figure 8 to get behind a spiral staircase that sits on the terrace and although some of the curves are a little sharper than I'd like them to be for the purpose of just running some gentle stock around the layout they will be fine.

Here is the North End of the layout....

Image

Image

Basically 2 short tunnels with a river basin in the middle will be the finished plan.....it's coming along quite nicely although the strong winds are really hampering my tunnel building!!


Here is the South End of the layout.....not tunnels here but high cuttings to attempt to hide the horrible curves.....

Image


There are 2 short sidings just to have spare loco's for running, nothing fancy....

Image

Image


And of course a couple of small huts and matchstick fencing as ever...

Image

Image

So the 2 lines, one up and one down don't cross or meet and don't even have any connection between them.....the idea of this layout was to run 2 slow trains, one up passenger and one down freight....whilst enjoying a cool beer on my terrace....BBQ time should be a lot more fun with a few trains running in the background and when the layout is complete it will be interesting to see what the weather can do to it over the course of 4 seasons....

I'll get more pics on as we go if anyone's interested.....thanks for your help guys.

Gav.
Watford FC For Me Since 1976


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