garden DC or DCC

Discussion on OO, and O gauge garden model railway design and construction. (scenery, track laying, electronics)
b308
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby b308 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:45 pm

End2end wrote:
Tom@Crewe wrote:Or Radio Controlled

This was my first thought but is this even possible in 00 gauge?
Thanks
End2end


Yes. Some people do it in 009 so it'd be a doddle in standard gauge.

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Mountain
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Mountain » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:34 pm

Radio control. Deltang springs to mind.

Bigmet
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Bigmet » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:16 am

Mountain wrote:I wouldn't use DCC in the garden. I would want to run trains in all weathers and damp DCC decoders are not a good plan.

DCC decoders are completely unaffected by damp in my experience to date. Radio control will require identical construction small electronics assemblies in the locos. Both systems preferable to DC.

The major problem with OO outdoors using RTR is water and dirt ingress on the mechanisms, although grease lubricated centre motor twin bogie types stand up well with minimal care after operation. Steam mechanisms require more care, all the lubricant lost from outside rods after one run round outdoors in light drizzle for a start, because there was little there to begin with. I ran diesel models almost exclusively in poor weather.

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Metadyneman
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Metadyneman » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:28 am

I concur with Bigmet. I have had an outdoor railway now for 18 years.. 10 of which have been using DCC. The outdoor atmosphere has had precisely zero effect on all decoders fitted to my locos, some of which are also sound fitted. I have to say that "digitalising" my outdoor layout was the best thing I ever did to it (apart from building it in the first place) and I would highly recommend it
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Buelligan
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Buelligan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:57 pm

Just thought I'd add, originally planning on a normal DC controller in the garden shed, since seeing Hornby's advert for their new app controlled dc system, I'm thinking this would be a better way to go. Allowing me to sit back and relax in the garden and control the locos and points from wherever I choose to be.

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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Sparkster » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:10 am

I've got a few 45mm engines on Piko G Track... where the track is though is directly under three prehistoric trees that shed like nobody's business in autumn.. I quickly binned the idea of electrification and went battery RC... never looked back!

Dunno how easy for OO/HO though? Less room inside! Fosworks is a fantastic supplier... see what they can offer?

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Mountain
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Mountain » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:35 pm

I helped on a G and an SM32 garden railways both track powered. I don't know why they don't convert to radio control as it would save them lots of work as it takes a day or two to clean all their track.
I noticed that SM32 track is a lot quicker and easier to keep clean then G scale track is. 00 would be easier again but it needs to be kept cleaner then G or SM32 track is.

Gradient issues are a concern. The "Hidden" gradients. It may look level but, especially when one goes down to 00, what looks as a gentle slope is more like a 45 degree angle to the locos! So it is worth getting this part right to prevent any issues.

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Mountain
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Mountain » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:42 pm

Bigmet wrote:
Mountain wrote:I wouldn't use DCC in the garden. I would want to run trains in all weathers and damp DCC decoders are not a good plan.

DCC decoders are completely unaffected by damp in my experience to date. Radio control will require identical construction small electronics assemblies in the locos. Both systems preferable to DC.

The major problem with OO outdoors using RTR is water and dirt ingress on the mechanisms, although grease lubricated centre motor twin bogie types stand up well with minimal care after operation. Steam mechanisms require more care, all the lubricant lost from outside rods after one run round outdoors in light drizzle for a start, because there was little there to begin with. I ran diesel models almost exclusively in poor weather.


Thanks. My initial thoughts are along the lines of the simpler one can make it the less there is to go wrong. I only have a limited outdoor experience with my own models, and that was with DC.

collectors
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby collectors » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:43 am

Haven't read all the post's, but if you was thinking 0 gauge, have you considered battery trains. Loads of benefits. with using either a battery remote control or model aircraft remote & receivers. You could have the points & any lights on battery. Would save a mass of cabling & the track hasnt got to be cleaned every time you use it. This is worth a look http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rc_model_rail.html

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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Bigmet » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:33 pm

Sparkster wrote:... where the track is though is directly under three prehistoric trees that shed like nobody's business in autumn...

Mountain wrote:...Gradient issues are a concern. The "Hidden" gradients. It may look level but...

I will throw a few more 'environmental' factors into the mix, based on experience outdoors, my own with OO, and a friend with live steam on 45mm gauge.

In OO:
Not just carefully profiling gradients in construction to enable the locos to get up them with the required trainload, but watching out for changes in gradients. (Seasonal shrinkage and expansion of soil can have a surprising effect.)
Likewise curve radius. Think in terms of 10 feet as a good minimum.
How sheltered the site is from wind? Your goods with sixty wagons on (full size trains was my main reason for going outdoors) will become very draggy in even a modest 'headwind' breeze. Course, if there's a real gust the wagons may be blown off the rails and the loco left cheerfully making good time...
The effects of damp, dust, even light frost on the rails - it can all get very slippy.
Then there's the 'fall out' Sparkster mentions, leaves off trees, bird's feathers and 'exhaust', rain splash carrying dirt and grit - to limit the effect of this last I would put OO at least 9" above ground level.
THE WILDLIFE. At my present location, between the corvids and mammals from squirrels upwards in size, the ripping up of the rails quickly proved an obstacle. I have since wondered if a 'control fence' kit would provide protection if connected to the rails whenever the line was not being used; but I have gone indoors with my OO, so that experiment isn't going to happen.

Live steam, with R/C.
Copes much better with the environment, but before running starts a go round of the track circuit with a broom is essential if it has been more than a day to two since the last running session. 'Stuff' will fall on the line. And the visual check for any cat that has decided to bask on the line, while the operators have been busy on refills of water and gas.

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Metadyneman
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Metadyneman » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:29 am

Bigmet wrote:Not just carefully profiling gradients in construction to enable the locos to get up them with the required trainload, but watching out for changes in gradients. (Seasonal shrinkage and expansion of soil can have a surprising effect.)


A very good point indeed. With my garden railway now approaching 20 years old (and me now over 60 years old but happily retired), it was originally laid level throughout, apart from an unintentional (construction error!!) 2" drop into and out of the shed. Since then the layout has evolved with slight undulation due to the very issue mentioned above i.e. ground shrinkage & expansion. It isn't serious enough to cause problems because the uprights go at least 2ft into the ground but it is worth bearing in mind that you will probably end up with unintended slight gradients even if you originally laid the foundations flatter than the Nullarbor plain in Australia!
A bargain is something you really don't need at a price that's completely irresistible!!

Bigmet
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Re: garden DC or DCC

Postby Bigmet » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:22 pm

Metadyneman wrote:...Since then the layout has evolved with slight undulation due to the very issue mentioned above i.e. ground shrinkage & expansion. It isn't serious enough to cause problems because the uprights go at least 2ft into the ground but it is worth bearing in mind that you will probably end up with unintended slight gradients even if you originally laid the foundations flatter than the Nullarbor plain in Australia!

My experience too. I was fortunately well aware of this before starting because of the significant cracking in house walls caused by the seasonal ground movement (clay soil over chalk, cracks in the soil in a dry summer you can put your whole arm down in some locations!) and that led me to use screw assembled all timber construction as the track support, which is easily realigned. Much more like operating a real railway, where maintaining alignment is a continuous process. It was very different to indoors, but equally fun.


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