LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

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Bigmet
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LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Bigmet » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:59 pm

A little while ago:
Bigmet wrote:
flying scotsman123 wrote:...look at the locos they've matched their rakes to, a couple there that don't appear to be RTR, yet...!

That's the aspect that caught my eye. LNWR Precedent and SECR Wainwright D class. Both of them quite possible as NRM commissions. Personally I am little surprised that the D class hasn't been seen yet. Such a beautiful example of the British 4-4-0, very successful in service, and still running in the BR period.

The second of the two locos hinted at by Hattons in the launch of their Genesis range of 4 and 6 wheel coaches has now been announced as a RTR OO model, commissioned jointly by Locomotion and Rails of Sheffield from Bachmann. First 2-4-0 tender engine in RTR OO.

https://railsofsheffield.com/news/artic ... dent-class

Byegad
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Byegad » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:49 pm

With rule1 applying to my layout, I run my Wainwright C and Birdcage triple coach set alongside a Merchant Navy and Schools. I must say I'd be ready, card in hand for almost any era2 stock.

Bigmet
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Bigmet » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:05 pm

Byegad wrote:... I must say I'd be ready, card in hand for almost any era2 stock.

With a fair number of attractive pre-group locos now available and more to come, this will be what Hattons are banking on for their four and six wheel freelance coach stock project's prospects.

I think this is a good 'toe in the water' job. If there is strong uptake then the next question will be whether there is enough of a market to support some more authentic models based on identifiable prototypes. Wait and see who is feeling brave...

Mike Parkes
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Mike Parkes » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:20 pm

Hardwicke can authentically be run with blue/grey mk 1s, although it probably would need the cab roof being painted black and have MR 1000* between it and the coaches (*or on a couple of notable occasions Flying Scotsman (1 May 1976) or Evening Star (19 June 1977))

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flying scotsman123
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby flying scotsman123 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:10 pm

Bigmet wrote:A little while ago:
Bigmet wrote:
flying scotsman123 wrote:...look at the locos they've matched their rakes to, a couple there that don't appear to be RTR, yet...!

That's the aspect that caught my eye. LNWR Precedent and SECR Wainwright D class. Both of them quite possible as NRM commissions. Personally I am little surprised that the D class hasn't been seen yet. Such a beautiful example of the British 4-4-0, very successful in service, and still running in the BR period.

The second of the two locos hinted at by Hattons in the launch of their Genesis range of 4 and 6 wheel coaches has now been announced as a RTR OO model, commissioned jointly by Locomotion and Rails of Sheffield from Bachmann. First 2-4-0 tender engine in RTR OO.

https://railsofsheffield.com/news/artic ... dent-class


Indeed, it looks very tasty! It does juuust about fit in with my chosen era, but £220 is a lot of money. Much as I'd like to support a pre-grouping venture, I shall reluctantly pass on this occasion.
Image
Stone station in pre-grouping days, my layout. Workbench for other projects here.

Byegad
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Byegad » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:03 am

Bigmet wrote:
Byegad wrote:... I must say I'd be ready, card in hand for almost any era2 stock.

With a fair number of attractive pre-group locos now available and more to come, this will be what Hattons are banking on for their four and six wheel freelance coach stock project's prospects.

I think this is a good 'toe in the water' job. If there is strong uptake then the next question will be whether there is enough of a market to support some more authentic models based on identifiable prototypes. Wait and see who is feeling brave...

Hattons are only 00. I'm using N gauge.

Bigmet
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Bigmet » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:55 am

flying scotsman123 wrote:Indeed, it looks very tasty! It does juuust about fit in with my chosen era, but £220 is a lot of money. Much as I'd like to support a pre-grouping venture, I shall reluctantly pass on this occasion.

The price aligns with that of the NRM Stirling single which was made in limited volume, possibly only 2000, based on information near time of release. I should think the volume on the Precedent will be somewhat larger, because it can be run as a traffic loco into the first ten years of the LMS , as well as in later preservation events, which should give it wider appeal. But it is never going to sell in continuing volume, very much a case of priced to be profitable at first release would be my opinion.


Much as I like the idea of it as a model, the competition for my model railway spend is fierce, a heap of ECML appropriate traction looks likely to arrive from late 2020 through 2021! Something of an embarassment of riches style event.

Byegad wrote:Hattons are only 00. I'm using N gauge.

Hattons (& Rails, Kernow, Olivias, etc.) are going to follow the money. If something of theirs with no competition flies off the shelves in OO, why not re-use the research and development for an N equivalent? Am I correct in thinking Hattons are the bold pioneers among the retailers sourcing their own models, with the LMS Garratt in N?

Byegad
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Byegad » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:09 pm

Bigmet wrote:
flying scotsman123 wrote:Indeed, it looks very tasty! It does juuust about fit in with my chosen era, but £220 is a lot of money. Much as I'd like to support a pre-grouping venture, I shall reluctantly pass on this occasion.

The price aligns with that of the NRM Stirling single which was made in limited volume, possibly only 2000, based on information near time of release. I should think the volume on the Precedent will be somewhat larger, because it can be run as a traffic loco into the first ten years of the LMS , as well as in later preservation events, which should give it wider appeal. But it is never going to sell in continuing volume, very much a case of priced to be profitable at first release would be my opinion.


Much as I like the idea of it as a model, the competition for my model railway spend is fierce, a heap of ECML appropriate traction looks likely to arrive from late 2020 through 2021! Something of an embarassment of riches style event.

Byegad wrote:Hattons are only 00. I'm using N gauge.

Hattons (& Rails, Kernow, Olivias, etc.) are going to follow the money. If something of theirs with no competition flies off the shelves in OO, why not re-use the research and development for an N equivalent? Am I correct in thinking Hattons are the bold pioneers among the retailers sourcing their own models, with the LMS Garratt in N?


Sadly they've just announced that the N version is a no go. Which is no doubt due to lack of buyers at £200/pop. Which is a shame, but as you says it's money driven. I did pre-order 1. The NGSoc have their Hunslet shunters on the way, I've 2 on order, Revolution/Sonic have the 56xx coming, 1 on order and Gaugemaster have the Class 73 coming in next year, 1 on order. Oh and I ordered the Class 66 Tom Moore, from Dapol. So I'm doing my best to fuel production!

Bigmet
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Bigmet » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:29 pm

Byegad wrote:...
Sadly they've just announced that the N version is a no go. Which is no doubt due to lack of buyers at £200/pop. Which is a shame, but as you says it's money driven. I did pre-order 1. The NGSoc have their Hunslet shunters on the way, I've 2 on order, Revolution/Sonic have the 56xx coming, 1 on order and Gaugemaster have the Class 73 coming in next year, 1 on order. Oh and I ordered the Class 66 Tom Moore, from Dapol. So I'm doing my best to fuel production!

I didn't know that Hattons had stopped their N gauge version of the Garratt, it is still listed:
https://www.hattons.co.uk/422311/hatton ... etail.aspx
That's disappointing, but ultimately as you recognise if there's not the interest then it cannot be produced.

Byegad
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Byegad » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:40 pm

Bigmet wrote:
Byegad wrote:...
Sadly they've just announced that the N version is a no go. Which is no doubt due to lack of buyers at £200/pop. Which is a shame, but as you says it's money driven. I did pre-order 1. The NGSoc have their Hunslet shunters on the way, I've 2 on order, Revolution/Sonic have the 56xx coming, 1 on order and Gaugemaster have the Class 73 coming in next year, 1 on order. Oh and I ordered the Class 66 Tom Moore, from Dapol. So I'm doing my best to fuel production!

I didn't know that Hattons had stopped their N gauge version of the Garratt, it is still listed:
https://www.hattons.co.uk/422311/hatton ... etail.aspx
That's disappointing, but ultimately as you recognise if there's not the interest then it cannot be produced.


This months RM say it's dropped on page 980.

Bigmet
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Bigmet » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:58 am

Byegad wrote:...This months RM say it's dropped on page 980.

Disappointing. At least there's a cracking model of the Stanier 8F on its way from BachFar, which is some compensation. It would be an unusual LMS / LMR / ScR steam period modeller that didn't need this loco far more than the Garratt.

I suspect there are pretty near as many personal N gauge layouts built in the UK, as there are OO gauge. But what limits the commercial support for RTR N gauge is the lack of the collector market which so dominates RTR OO gauge loco sales in particular. On the one occasion I returned a failed Hornby model, (split axle gear) the retailer remarked that I was one of those troublesome types who would insist on operating their models. (Accompanied by a big grin I should add.) His estimate at that time (early 2000s) was that practically all RTR OO diesel models and a good 80% of steam models got at most a brief test run before going back in the box for ever after.

Byegad
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Byegad » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:58 pm

Bigmet wrote:
Byegad wrote:...This months RM say it's dropped on page 980.

Disappointing. At least there's a cracking model of the Stanier 8F on its way from BachFar, which is some compensation. It would be an unusual LMS / LMR / ScR steam period modeller that didn't need this loco far more than the Garratt.

I suspect there are pretty near as many personal N gauge layouts built in the UK, as there are OO gauge. But what limits the commercial support for RTR N gauge is the lack of the collector market which so dominates RTR OO gauge loco sales in particular. On the one occasion I returned a failed Hornby model, (split axle gear) the retailer remarked that I was one of those troublesome types who would insist on operating their models. (Accompanied by a big grin I should add.) His estimate at that time (early 2000s) was that practically all RTR OO diesel models and a good 80% of steam models got at most a brief test run before going back in the box for ever after.


Well I'm doing my best! With very nearly 300* locos, 20 or so at any one time on my layout and 70 on display, I'm doing my bit.

*Since 1974 I've bought locos, and stock. All the locos run and get an outing every couple of years as stock rotates onto and off my layout.

Bigmet
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby Bigmet » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:16 am

What look like production specimens are being shown by Rails of Sheffield, and very handsome too. These were astounding little machines, in many ways the 'last blast' of early express traction design; before the advent of the 'big engine' with wide firebox, demonstrated the optimum path for future maximum express power in the UK. (Neatly,the last of these 'Improved Precedent' class was built in 1901, the Ivatt 251 'large atlantic' from 1902, it's not often that 'the handing on of the baton' is so clear.)

Whatever, lovely looking models, and should be on target for the summer 2021 availability originally announced via Rails and Locomotion NRM which jointly commissioned this model from Bachmann. (I an so tempted but there's a monster pile of LNER designs that have priority...)

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PeterH
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby PeterH » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:08 pm

The Improved Precedents have arrived, I got the Bachmann/Locomotion 790 Hardwicke. Fitted crew, coal, plates and painted the roof black.

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D605Eagle
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Re: LNWR Precedent 2-4-0

Postby D605Eagle » Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:14 pm

So do you think it's worth the money? I do like these locos and they are an unusual layout, the first 2-4-0 tender engine in RTR I believe. However personally as they don't fit in with my era there's no real reason for me to purchase one.


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