Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

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mahoganydog
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby mahoganydog » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:21 pm

Bufferstop wrote:I notice that the blurb says six wheelers will have a sliding centre axle


Oh god no, this didn't work on the Stove made by Hornby Magazine! All these "things" do is derail all the time.

The 1980s six wheel van made by Hornby works but is a cheap, nasty way of doing it. Seeing the whole axle assembly flapping around just looks AWFUL.

The only way a six wheel chassis can be done is with a Cleminson type underframe.

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm

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Alexander Court
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Alexander Court » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:55 pm

BrightonMan wrote:Great idea from Hattons, although it's odd that there are no LBSCR liveries listed seeing as there are three LBSCR livered RTR loco's available at the moment (4 if you count the many second-hand E2's out there).


I actually had this thought over my coffee just now and came to see if it had been said, maybe behind the scenes a big manufacturer is doing LBSCR four/six wheelers in their next range announcements and they don't want to step on toes? :mrgreen: we'll see, I want too many of these and Im going to have to give a lot of thought to which livery I opt for.

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Bigmet
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Bigmet » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:19 pm

BrightonMan wrote:... it's odd that there are no LBSCR liveries listed seeing as there are three LBSCR livered RTR loco's available at the moment (4 if you count the many second-hand E2's out there).

Very early days though for this project, plenty of time for 'further developments'. What has been shown are sketches of outline intent, I don't see any design having started as yet, and there's more than a hint that they are listening to market reaction to the idea: the suggestion that a full brake / luggage van be included has been acknowledged for example.

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flying scotsman123
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby flying scotsman123 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:35 pm

Bigmet wrote:
BrightonMan wrote:... it's odd that there are no LBSCR liveries listed seeing as there are three LBSCR livered RTR loco's available at the moment (4 if you count the many second-hand E2's out there).

Very early days though for this project, plenty of time for 'further developments'. What has been shown are sketches of outline intent, I don't see any design having started as yet, and there's more than a hint that they are listening to market reaction to the idea: the suggestion that a full brake / luggage van be included has been acknowledged for example.


Indeed, within 24 hours I see there have been quite a few design changes resulting from comments on RMWeb including removal of panelling below the waist, half width panelling on end compartments, and the complete introduction of a full brake. They already look better to my eye.

mahoganydog wrote:
Bufferstop wrote:I notice that the blurb says six wheelers will have a sliding centre axle


Oh god no, this didn't work on the Stove made by Hornby Magazine! All these "things" do is derail all the time.

The 1980s six wheel van made by Hornby works but is a cheap, nasty way of doing it. Seeing the whole axle assembly flapping around just looks AWFUL.

The only way a six wheel chassis can be done is with a Cleminson type underframe.

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm

Jim


Given Hattons' reputation I shall be waiting to see how their 6w chassis go before going the Cleminson route, I'm not writing it off just yet.
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Richard Lee » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:10 am

It occurs to me that these would be extremely useful for someone wanting trains for a confined space. Hattons' suggested formations give 5 coaches (4BT, 4T, 4C12, 6T, 6BT) behind a P class 0-6-0T for the SECR "Local Passenger" train. They say that their 4 wheel coaches are 105.2mm long,and their 6 wheel coaches are 129.2 long. My calculator believes the coach lengths total 574mm (about 22 and 1/2 inches). Presumably buffers and couplings would take this to more like 2' (609mm). Add a P class, Terrier or even an H class, and you get a train with 5 coaches plus loco taking up less than 30".

If you want an even shorter train you could just buy one of their 4 coach packs.

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glencairn
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby glencairn » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:43 am

mahoganydog wrote:
Bufferstop wrote:I notice that the blurb says six wheelers will have a sliding centre axle


Oh god no, this didn't work on the Stove made by Hornby Magazine! All these "things" do is derail all the time.

The 1980s six wheel van made by Hornby works but is a cheap, nasty way of doing it. Seeing the whole axle assembly flapping around just looks AWFUL.

The only way a six wheel chassis can be done is with a Cleminson type underframe.

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm

Jim


Off course one could wait and see how the six wheelers fare on batch 1. If successful buy from batch 2 or batch 3.

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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Pennine MC » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:26 pm

mahoganydog wrote:
Bufferstop wrote:I notice that the blurb says six wheelers will have a sliding centre axle


Oh god no, this didn't work on the Stove made by Hornby Magazine! All these "things" do is derail all the time.

...

The only way a six wheel chassis can be done is with a Cleminson type underframe.



I've had experience of six wheelers that run OK, with and without being Cleminson. And I really wouldn't judge all RTR 6 wheelers by the standards of the unfortunate Hornby magazine example - which, I should point out, was made by Dapol, not the mag; do you need to guess who was involved in its design?

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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby footplat47 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:38 pm

Well all that aside I am looking forward to these coaches and all being well I shall order some. Have one or two locos waiting to pull them which have to put up with cleistory bogie coaches at moment. The only 6 wheelers I have had before were Hornby 6 wheel wagons. They ran fine.
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Bufferstop
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:43 pm

Pennine MC wrote:I've had experience of six wheelers that run OK, with and without being Cleminson. And I really wouldn't judge all RTR 6 wheelers by the standards of the unfortunate Hornby magazine example - which, I should point out, was made by Dapol, not the mag; do you need to guess who was involved in its design?

If the "Stove" was produced by Dapol it probably had Dapol's weird wheel profile which seems to encourage derailments. At first look it seems ok but experience shows it's a problem.
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:49 pm

Funny, 6 wheel rolling stock IS a problem for set-track and 1st radius curves.
All I've done is file the flanges off the centre wheel set. Even photographed close up
it's almost impossible to see they're missing. Several Dapol milk tanks run fine and
until upside down you really don't know ?
To make my two Oxford Rail 6 wheel brake vans 'universal' they had the same treatment.

Perhaps I am a 'butcher', but perfect running is the benefit.

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SRman
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby SRman » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:11 am

I find 6-wheelers run fine if there is sufficient float in the centre axles - sideways and up/down.

The oft-mentioned Dapol Stove R has given me no trouble once I Blu-Tacked the end axles into place - there is sufficient resilience in the Blu-Tack to allow a little movement while restricting the turning motion originally designed in. With the Dapol 6-wheel milk tanks, I drilled the centre axleboxes into vertical oval shapes to allow the axles to go up and down freely; with their short wheelbase, the side play is not too important a factor. A little extra weight also helps with their track-holding.

With that in mind, I don't hold too many fears for the Hatton's 6-wheelers. We'll have to wait and see.

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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby stuartp » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:19 am

Pennine MC wrote:I've had experience of six wheelers that run OK, with and without being Cleminson. And I really wouldn't judge all RTR 6 wheelers by the standards of the unfortunate Hornby magazine example - which, I should point out, was made by Dapol, not the mag; do you need to guess who was involved in its design?


Ditto. The same person who thought all the weight in an 0-4-4T needed to go behind the rear coupled axle.
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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Bigmet » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:34 am

Design input by committee does appear to be working quite well, which is 'interesting'. I can use a generic six wheel full brake, from the long gone Goole and Barbetby, now painted in BR's engineering department black.
Pennine MC wrote:...I really wouldn't judge all RTR 6 wheelers by the standards of the unfortunate Hornby magazine example - which, I should point out, was made by Dapol, not the mag; do you need to guess who was involved in its design?

I hadn't made that connection. Dodgy Junk Mechanisms strike again...

Bufferstop wrote:...it probably had Dapol's weird wheel profile which seems to encourage derailments. At first look it seems ok but experience shows it's a problem.

Are you referring to the strange wheel profile that I first saw on the Dapol milk tanks: cylindrical tread, right angle flange and the back of the flange tapered (or a very obtuse conic section) depending on how you want to think of it, resulting in a near knife edge at the flange tip? Useless. I hadn't made the possible connection there either...

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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby Pennine MC » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:01 pm

Bufferstop wrote:
Pennine MC wrote:I've had experience of six wheelers that run OK, with and without being Cleminson. And I really wouldn't judge all RTR 6 wheelers by the standards of the unfortunate Hornby magazine example - which, I should point out, was made by Dapol, not the mag; do you need to guess who was involved in its design?

If the "Stove" was produced by Dapol it probably had Dapol's weird wheel profile which seems to encourage derailments. At first look it seems ok but experience shows it's a problem.


That was possibly part of it (plus the wheels were 12mm wagon diameter rather than the 14mm coach wheels they should have been). But the three trucks were all left 'free' to swivel at will; whilst some latitude is obviously a good idea, as SRman says, this was all a bit too wayward

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Re: Hattons Announces 4 and 6 wheel coaches

Postby alex3410 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:18 pm

alex3410 wrote: The guides also have a D class listed so fingers crossed that's a good sign for a release of it in RTR

Didn't take long


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