Oxford's latest Dean Goods

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Lysander
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Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Lysander » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:19 pm

Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......

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Mountain
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Mountain » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:33 pm

It goes to show how it can be difficult to capture the "Feel" of the prototype in model form. I agree that the curves to the cab sides look out. What to me is more noticeable is the colour. I noticed this before when I saw the photos before the models came out as it didnt quite give the "Great Western" look to it. Mainline and Hornby used to capture the colours well. I even thought the shiney Triang versions captured the shade correctly though they look like they were freshly painted and polished up to attend a show!
Lima used to look out of place as they also struggled with the colour.
I dont know why some look right and some dont regarding the colour. I will say though that as time goes on, it can be harder to match colours as the real locos have had fresh coats of paint and may be slightly different shades then they once were, and it only takes a small difference in colour to change the look.

Back to the model. How does it perform? Also, if someone made a few different chassis to sell to replace the ones on ageing Mainline models, they will sell well.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

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flying scotsman123
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby flying scotsman123 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:19 pm

Mountain wrote:I will say though that as time goes on, it can be harder to match colours


Not really sure what you mean by that! It's easier now than it ever has been with the use of computers to match colours and store the colour data. There's still original samples around too if you want to start from scratch. Swindon still has original charts and there are still a few locomotives that have been stored in museums with fresh coats of paint applied under BR.
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GWR_fan
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:39 am

I would purchase a couple if I had confidence in their running ability as half a world away means I am basically stuck with the quality of the items received. Maybe some of those on another site are a little pedantic for perfect running quality with multiple returns but there are examples of poorly performing models. As a new manufacturer OR shot itself in the foot with its inability to maintain quality control. Even its commissioned models have issues that should have never surfaced.

Bigmet
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Bigmet » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:07 am

Finding their way in and gaining experience, and I feel it is perhaps a tougher learning curve than OR as a diecast model manufacturer expected. When Bachmann - now twenty years ago! - decided to launch their Blue Riband project of better quality models they took a while to find their feet in some respects. And they were a well established manufacturer of HO for the American market.

Among the early loco products, their 2251 remains off scale in some key respects, the Standard 4MT 2-6-4T has an unnecessarily awkward construction, the Standard 5MT is over geared, inaccurate in a key respect and has poor traction; all left unchanged to this day. The A1 pacific was a mess for traction and had assembly alignment issues, and a batch got duff motors; this one has been generally sorted since. At the time these problems were largely ignored, because the models overall - even the weakest - were a country mile better than anything previous in RTR OO, matching what it previously took a skilled kit builder and painter to achieve.

OR had to enter the market against a far superior standard of competition, so an uphill fight top get a toehold! I am optimistic, having looked over their first loco design while decoder fitting for a friend there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. I own examples of one of the later wagons. The LNER six plank general merchandise open is a good model which matches other RTR. (Has a defect which is easy to cure by moving push fit components about, no worse than what the competition get up to.)

So I am up for the N7, a very useful loco for me to supplement two rather tired kitbuilds, and will report!

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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:28 am

Well I have a BR early emblem version with sound.
It runs well and been used by me at an exhibition pulling a short freight.
As I don't have any other steam sound locomotives and am not a finicky
pedantic type I find it fits my requirement.
If for any reasons you want a Dean Goods it's by far the best to be made
so far. As to long term reliability, literally only time will tell.
Somewhere on Youtube I have a video of it running around my garage layout
smoothly where many other locomotives can dislike the 3 set-track points.
May add a link later.

* link if I do it.
https://youtu.be/8Wq3LoP_Tdg

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 am

The issue with me is that after the design problems with the Radial, then the assembly issues with the Dean Goods, OR followed up with multiple assembly issues with the Janus. I hope by the time the N7 hits the assembly line, OR contracted employees have the ability to assemble a reliable model and OR has the business sense to position a QC person on the assembly line as the factory inhouse QC has been very poor to date. This is the fourth OR model and multiple assembly issues will not bode well for future models being released.

Hattons are a relatively new manufacturer, however, they seemed to have picked up the ball on the run and score a touchdown with all their models to date. OR has been dealing with China for many years so should have already established a reliable working relationship with Chinese manufacturers, so what has gone wrong?

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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:52 am

There's no way I can justify another GWR loco. It's a decent model (I don't listen to rivet counters) especially as a new entrant into the market. The Collet version fills that space in my roster.
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Lysander
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Lysander » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:38 am

Geoff has pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you want / need a Dean, it's the best produced so far. The original Mainline model would have knocked it into a cocked hat had it not been fitted with that dreadful tender drive, but it was, so there we are.

There have been [and continue to be] howls of indignant rage elsewhere over the production of this model. It is genuinely not that bad however and should satisfy the majority of modellers. Absolute accuracy expectations will not be satisfied, they rarely can be by any manufacturer, and if that's what's required, a kit will be the only solution. If you want a cooking Dean, this is your one.

Mine runs perfectly, it's one of the later issues. Early ones did suffer from some shorting problems [the pre-grouping liveried models] but Oxford seem to have addressed this. They have also improved the cab side sheet issue.

I'm left absolutely convinced that a few extremely vociferous modellers [elsewhere - you know who they are] are simply indulging in a knock Oxford regardless exercise: their ire is totally over the top and they do need to get out more. No manufacturer has ever succeeded in producing a model which has not included in its numbers a share of lemons: Heljan has certainly had some very difficult times, as has Hornby ['Design Clever', T9 etc]. But with Oxford around, all of that is conveniently forgotten.

The Dean is not perfect, but it's good enough however, unmistakably a Dean, and I am happy for that.

That said, I can understand the reluctance to purchase of modellers who live distantly: dealing with returns from half way around the world would be challenging.

Tony
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Bufferstop
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 pm

It's easy to say some measurement is out by some piffling amount, but do they ever ask a toolmaker? Almost every mass production technique calls for some compromise to allow it to be made at all. We can all count rivet or bolt heads but will casting/moulding them to absolute scale size result in a convincing representation. 1/8th inch steel plate is pretty strong and self supporting, can you make 0.09mm plastic stand up in a similar manner, the toolmaker has to compromise, and who are we to complain when most of us totally ignore an error equivalent to six and a half inches in the gauge.
Compared to my Hornby Dublo N2 of 1952 there are no really bad models, just some that are better than others in one or more respects.
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Bigmet
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Bigmet » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:45 pm

GWR_fan wrote:...Hattons are a relatively new manufacturer, however, they seemed to have picked up the ball on the run and score a touchdown with all their models to date. OR has been dealing with China for many years so should have already established a reliable working relationship with Chinese manufacturers, so what has gone wrong?

That's an interesting comparison.

Hattons class 14 Teddy Bear, class 28 Metrovick CoBo and Beyer-Garratt all in partnership with Heljan all took a bit of a beating for troubles various. Their 14xx in partnership with DJM not trouble free either, and they abandoned the King project with DJM. The two most recent that appear to have been wholly the work of their in-house designer Dave Mylett in partnership with an unknown Chinese manufacturer have been very well received. How much was Dave Mylett involved in the earlier not so good results? - we just don't know - but he was with Hattons for at least some of those earlier models as I recall it.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:19 pm

I think Oxford has a closer relationship with their Chinese manufacturer than any of the other new entrants, their diecast releases should mean there is sufficient capacity dedicated to their requirements to fairly accurately schedule production and delivery. I held my breath waiting to see what they made of a loco mechanism, but they appeared as competent as anyone from the word go. We live in interesting times!
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Dad-1
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:12 pm

I note that GWR_fan has never had an OR locomotive and is basing all his comments
on second-hand information from individuals he doesn't know and is therefore unable
to do anything other than repeat what's been written.

Not that that's a bad idea particularly if you live halfway around the world. I would be
terrified to post a modern detailed locomotive on such a trek.

My view on the negative press is influenced by a visitor to Weymouth Exhibition last
October. He saw one of my Hornby 2-8-0 South Wales tank engines pulling 40+ wagons.
His response was that he'd wanted one, but read somewhere a reviewer stating that
they didn't have particularly good traction - His jaw fell when he saw what mine was
doing !! and wished he'd bought one - I hope he has now !
Mind you I've not pushed any of these locomotives beyond 57 wagons ...... yet.


Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:05 pm

I would think that the Heljan produced locomotives were pure commissions with very little hands on guidance. The King was most likely cancelled because Hornby released an updated version at basically the same time that the DJM/Hattons King class was proposed. I was never interested in the DJM 14XX or J94 so cannot comment on any reliability issues. DJM has done some nicely commissioned models such as the Beattie Well tank (assuming that you never want to disassemble it to fit a decoder) and the 02 class, however, even with Dave's long term interaction with Chinese manufacturers he generally seems to run into issues with his projects which cause delays. His business model seems more a one-man band than a "corporation".

When Hattons are at the coal face then the project seems better co-ordinated and the product released better quality. Hornby showed with their 0-4-0 Peckett and their recent 0-6-0 models (J50, J15, class 700, etc.) that a well performing, reliable model is possible so why cannot OR sort out their issues?

In this day of the internet bad news spreads far quicker than good news. An OR purchased loco from a local downunder seller is around $295.00. I can purchase a Dean from Britain for $145.00 (basically half the price of the local product). However, I am unable to test the Brtiish sourced product and given the number of defected models criticised on the other site, I am not willing to gamble, even though some of the criticism is pure pedantic behaviour. One guy supposedly had the store testing the loco for him and then ringing him asking him what more he could do to test the loco prior dispatch. This was the apparent third or fourth time the store had sent him a model after he had returned the previous models as unfit for purpose. By this stage I would have refunded him his money and said "on your bike son".

I am able to fix most models that pass my way but have grown weary of fixing manufacturer's problems. A lot of locomotives pass through my hands and to date the only one that has beaten me is a factory TTS fitted P2 loco. A beautiful creation to look at but there is a short somewhere in the main loco chassis that has killed a TTS decoder from new. The loco runs perfectly on analogue but when connected to the tender and continuity checks carried out there is a short between the motor and the track. No doubt I will be able to fix it but as I never intend fitting a decoder then it is not worth the time spent on it.

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Mountain
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Re: Oxford's latest Dean Goods

Postby Mountain » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:34 pm

I'd love to have unlimited resources to buy models and review them (Priority given to running qualities and the more important aspects like the general look and are spares available etc). However at the moment I dont have a large layout to run them and I dont have the unlimited funds to buy them! :lol:
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.


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