Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Ask questions or give advice on any other model railway Manufacturers and Gauges
User avatar
Lysander
Posts: 2330
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:53 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Lysander » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:24 am

Pennine MC wrote:
mattmay05 wrote:So that's the first Adams Radial announcement now to wait for the other 3, one at Warley.


This is of course all rumour so far, initiated by one D Jones I believe in one of his characteristically unprofessional (IMHO) status updates on the 'big forum'. Even if there's any substance to it, I really do not expect to see four manufacturers lasting the course with this one.


I'm inclined to agree: there are so few secrets in model railway manufacturing [Note: I didn't say 'no secrets', just 'few' !] that for four manufacturers to go head-to-head on the same model would seem completely improbable. However, given the undoubted popularity of this class, I would be surprised if one of the others - or a commissioner - had not actively explored this option and - maybe - was already on the way to an ultimate release.

See what appears at Warley I suppose.

Tony
Last edited by Lysander on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......

Pennine MC
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:23 am

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Pennine MC » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:47 am

Lysander wrote:[. However, given the undoubted popularity of this class, I would be surprised if one of the others - or a commissioner - had not actively explored this option and - maybe - was already on the way to an ultimate release.


True enough Tony. I think the key phrases though may be 'actively explored' and 'ultimate release'. I wouldnt doubt that others have looked into it - and I wouldnt be at all surprised if one of those 'others' were based west of the Tamar - but there's still a long road between those key phrases.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 13484
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:49 am

alex3410 wrote:http://www.oxfordrail.com/

websites a bit naff but being a web developer i guess my views biased


I opened the link captioned "Why" it brought a definite lump to my throat, my maternal Grandfather having been knocked down and killed working on the line before I was born.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Bigmet
Posts: 9117
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Bigmet » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:58 pm

Pennine MC wrote: ...Even with the case of the Hattons and Hornby Kings, it's only duplication, and I feel the economics won't pan out to support two models in all the variations that are proposed. As evidence for this, I would cite the case of the LMS diesels, where Hattons eventually canned some of the variations they'd planned when the Bachamann one came along...

The time for some 'shared tooling' projects may be drawing near. Same basic body shell and running gear to be completed for the partnering manufacturers at the quality and price they choose to pitch it: finished for Manufacturer 'A' with simplified livery, basic detail, three pole motor; finished for manufacturer 'C' with full livery and detail fit, five pole motor, extra pick ups. (The cynical part of my make up says that actually the packaging would be a bigger differentiator than the model's qualities; charge twice as much for the exact same product but in a 'smart' box: heavy pasteboard with high gloss wrapper, closed cell foam lining, well written and illustrated 'blurb' with parts diagram, inside.)

User avatar
sir hayden
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:51 pm
Location: Orange Park, Florida United States.

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby sir hayden » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:55 pm

It would seem so. I honestly wasn't surprised but this will be of good use on my layout as this would be good on suburban passenger trains on my layout.

ParkeNd
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby ParkeNd » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:20 am

More loco manufacturers can only be good for the customer. Two only in N gauge and just three in OO is not far short of a monopoly. Only one niche small player (Union Mills) offers any relief and then just to modellers of Northern lines. Certainly in N only Bachmann Farish can be depended on for quality with a recent Dapol interview showing they are in denial of their quality issues on recent models like the 57xx pannier tank and the A4. Minitrix would be my favourite for a return to British outline models but in lieu of this Oxford having a go is most welcome in my view. D J Models have yet to deliver a model but are worth hoping for, whilst crowd sourcing has to be seen as a major disaster area despite the appeal of the idea.

Were the motor industry to be reduced further to just two or three players choice would almost certainly disappear, quality would be dictated by the suppliers, and the £30,000 family car would probably be just over the horizon.

Bring it on Oxford.

Bigmet
Posts: 9117
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Bigmet » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:14 pm

ParkeNd wrote:More loco manufacturers can only be good for the customer... just three in OO is not far short of a monopoly...

When does a RTR loco manufacturer count as a RTR loco manufacturer? There's three in OO, Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan, and then six more, Dapol, Murphy's, Golden Age, ViTrains, Realtrack, OO Works which are all active; and then there's DJM, Rapido, Oxford and an Anglo-Aus partnership that has still to reveal its trading name, all with announcements but no product to show in OO as yet, and it's a fair bet I have forgotten a smaller operator or two!

ViTrains UK partner clearly found the going a bit hard and has not expanded the range since their second loco, now they only issue comissioned reliveries. It's not launching that's so difficult, but staying the course with continuing product introductions that persuade customers to release moths from wallets.

ParkeNd
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby ParkeNd » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:43 pm

8 of the manufacturers you mention are insignificant. Just maths in support of an argument. In practical terms only Bachmann, Dapol, Hornby, and to an extent Heljan who I had forgotten before, have the market all to themselves in OO, and just Bachmann Farish, and Dapol are significantly active in N. That's virtually a monopoly IMHO.

Pennine MC
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:23 am

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Pennine MC » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:49 pm

Bigmet wrote:
ViTrains UK partner clearly found the going a bit hard and has not expanded the range since their second loco, now they only issue comissioned reliveries..


Well trodden ground I know, but I doubt Vi/HobbyCo ever had any real intention to expand the range past the 37 and 47.

ParkeNd wrote:...whilst crowd sourcing has to be seen as a major disaster area despite the appeal of the idea.


Interesting comment. Care to expand?

ParkeNd
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby ParkeNd » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:04 pm

Certainly. The last crowd sourcing venture I followed was for the N gauge GWR Railcar. It failed to secure much more than 10% of the pledges it needed. The idea of crowd sourcing is an appealing concept since should it actually ever result in a product hitting the model train market as a delivered product it will be praiseworthy. In my opinion, as a retired New Product Manager this situation will persist if reliant on DJM until they have brought a product physically to market

Pennine MC
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:23 am

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Pennine MC » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:09 pm

Thanks.

ParkeNd wrote:In my opinion, as a retired New Product Manager this situation will persist if reliant on DJM until they have brought a product physically to market


Perhaps the N gauge Pendolino Kickstarter, now being sourced via Rapido, will be the one to watch then.

ParkeNd
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby ParkeNd » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:24 pm

Pennine MC wrote:Thanks.

ParkeNd wrote:In my opinion, as a retired New Product Manager this situation will persist if reliant on DJM until they have brought a product physically to market


Perhaps the N gauge Pendolino Kickstarter, now being sourced via Rapido, will be the one to watch then.


Does that mean the Kickstarter Project has even started then?

Ben A
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:00 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Ben A » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:27 am

Hello ParkeNd,

The Pendolino Kickstarter starts in 3 days - it will run for 60 days and end on Sunday January 18th at 10pm.

If you go to our website www.ngaugependolino.com you'll see we now have a countdown clock running. Once the Kickstarter goes live a large button will appear and you will also be able to click through from the site to the Kickstarter page where you can, if you wish, make a pledge.

We have also just arrived on Twitter - @baby_pendo - and please follow us, and tweet about us.

As I have said before, the hardcore of N gauge modellers who post on this forum and others will only get us, in my estimation, about half way to our target. What we need are the same again in Rule 1 modellers, collectors, philanthropist modellers, those who appreciate the chance to make a bit of history, etc etc.

And what's to lose by pledging? No money is taken until the end, and only then if we reach the goal. So if we fail you lose nothing, and if we succeed then you've been in on the ground at a truly ground-breaking event.

Also, we followed Matthew's Streamlined railcar project closely and have tried to learn from his lessons. I would say the chief issue he had was liveries; there were more than one accurate one and he had to allow for this. With the Pendolino the liveries are largely identical: All that changes is the unit number!

cheers

Ben A.

Pennine MC
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:23 am

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby Pennine MC » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:45 am

Ben A wrote:... I would say the chief issue he [Matthew] had was liveries; there were more than one accurate one and he had to allow for this. With the Pendolino the liveries are largely identical: All that changes is the unit number!
.


Hehe. I feel that may be a very salient point, Ben. It's been very evident with many recent models (not necessarily crowd sourced ones) that folk fully expect a comprehensive range of liveries, down to some relatively minor variants - and significantly in this context, will 'wait for the one they want' rather than consider one that's near enough or wielding the paintbrush.

ParkeNd
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Oxfordrail - new OO RTR entrant

Postby ParkeNd » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:19 am

Pennine MC wrote:
Ben A wrote:... I would say the chief issue he [Matthew] had was liveries; there were more than one accurate one and he had to allow for this. With the Pendolino the liveries are largely identical: All that changes is the unit number!
.


Hehe. I feel that may be a very salient point, Ben. It's been very evident with many recent models (not necessarily crowd sourced ones) that folk fully expect a comprehensive range of liveries, down to some relatively minor variants - and significantly in this context, will 'wait for the one they want' rather than consider one that's near enough or wielding the paintbrush.


Wether or not you are right about the liveries being the major issue Ben A I can't tell. From my own experience I would say that overestimating the potential size of the market allied to a lack of actually pushing the product are the main reasons for disappointing sales - translated into inadequate volumes of pledges in this case.

I wanted a GWR Railcar and two things influenced me. The first was that coincident with the Kickstarter period Hattons (and maybe others) started taking pre-orders for a re-run of a pre-existing Farish product in two liveries (basically brown/cream or Brunswick green). The second was the Kickstarter project depended on DJM Models who, despite having appeal, haven't brought a physical product to market yet. I opted to go for what I saw as having the greatest chance of really happening.

I really do wish the Pendelino Kickstarter project success. It certainly has the sort of sales push to give it success, and a planned manufacture with better proved performance credentials. If it succeeds then it certainly will be ground breaking in the model train market.

Unlike the GWR Railcar I don't want a Pendiolino myself but that will have no influence on the success of the project. Good luck - you are certainly trying hard enough and in an innovating way.


Return to “Other Model Railway Manufacturers and Gauges”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests