Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Ask questions or give advice on any other model railway Manufacturers and Gauges
User avatar
poliss
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:28 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby poliss » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:43 pm

I know Hornby say use 3-in-One. They deserve a good spanking for that.
I use the Labelle range of lubricants from Model Junction. A bottle should last you for years.
http://www.modeljunction.info/estore/in ... 1mn2qccaf4

Bigmet
Posts: 7770
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Bigmet » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:18 am

Cynical hat on: Hornby want your models to clap out, so you will run along to your friendly Hornby dealer and buy a load of replacements! Excellent plastics compatible greases from Labelle and Woodland Scenics make lubrication so much less trouble now. The big thing about these greases is that they stay put and do the job for years, quite literally.

Mike Parkes
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:25 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Mike Parkes » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:53 pm

Back when Hornby recommeded 3 in 1 loco chassis and wheels were metal with very little plastic to be seen.

User avatar
Jim S-W
Posts: 1320
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Jim S-W » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:34 pm

It's a bit more convoluted than that.

Let's start with the airfix mk2 coach. Was airfix, then dapol and now hornby (current)
Class 45, mainline first, then replica then bachmann (not the current one)
Class 56 , mainline then dapol then hornby (again not the current one)
Airfix mk1s then mainline then replica. (current)

I guess old tools never die, they just get passed arround!

Cheers

Jim

snakeman4968
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:01 am
Location: Gosport, Hants UK

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby snakeman4968 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:41 pm

Hi all,
Just wanted to say a big thanks for all the advice on this one....i guess my original question wasn't quite as simple as i'd first thought!!!

I've decided to list the Dapol Steam loco that started off this thread on that well known auction site, complete with what i would consider to be an honest description. I've Even highlighted the 'Non Runner' and 'Spares or repairs' in bold type.
Don't you just hate it when people give vague descriptions coupled with grainy, dark or just ambiguous photos...aaaarrgghhh!!!

I'm sure somebody will want it and as i've put in the ad, it would make a nice ornament if all else fails.

I've not been a member on here for very long and i've already found a wealth of genuinly useful information, so to all of you out there....Please, Keep up the good work :-)

Dave

User avatar
K9-70
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: N.Ireland
Contact:

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby K9-70 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:16 am

Jim S-W wrote:It's a bit more convoluted than that.

Let's start with the airfix mk2 coach. Was airfix, then dapol and now hornby (current)
Class 45, mainline first, then replica then bachmann (not the current one)
Class 56 , mainline then dapol then hornby (again not the current one)
Airfix mk1s then mainline then replica. (current)

I guess old tools never die, they just get passed arround!

Cheers

Jim


Mk2d coach: Airfix, Mainline, Dapol, now Hornby.
Class 03: Mainline, Bachmann
Class 31: Airfix, Dapol, some tooling passed to Hornby, but not enough to make a complete model.
Class 45: Mainline, Replica, Bachmann
Class 56: Mainline, Dapol, Hornby
Mk1 Coach: Mainline, Replica, (Replica/Bachmann (Kadar/Bachman made some Mk1 coaches for Replica up until 1990?))
I have examples of Bachmann branded Mk1 coaches mfd for Replica.
AFAIK, Airfix never made a Mk1 coach.
The Rides the "REASON" the "DESTINATION" is only an "EXCUSE" :-).

Mike Parkes
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:25 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Mike Parkes » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:21 pm

Correct - The Mk1 was a Mainline model. Airfix coaches were the Mk2d, GW B Set, GW Autotrailer, GW Centenary Coaches, LMS Stanier corridors and LMS Non-corridors. The Mk2s and GW coaches have more recently been produced by Hornby, while Dapol seem to have retained the LMS ones given the kit versions that have just started to appear.

Mike Parkes
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:25 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Mike Parkes » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:25 pm

Old thread I know but reading the 9th edition of British Model Trains Catalogue the situation with the wagons was far more complex than I had thought.

Dealing with the wagons originally produced by Airfix these passed to Mainline in 1981 then Dapol in 1985 with whom the LMS Vent Van remains. In 1996 toolings were sold to Hornby with whom the Lowmac, Siphon G, Siphon H, LMS and GWR Brake Vans, 20T Tank wagon & Bogie Bolster A are with. Of the rest Dapol had copies of the toolings made so that the models today can be found, subject to production runs, in both Dapol and Hornby ranges;

- Conflat and Container : Dapol have the Airfix conflat and had a duplicate container made after selling the original with the duplicate conflat to Hornby.
- 5 & 7 planks: the duplicate 7 plank was made by Dapol before they acquired the original Airfix tooling. Not known who has which today.
- SR van, 9 plank mineral & 20T steel mineral : copy toolings were not made by Dapol in in 2005/2006.
- 21T Hopper : Possible copy tooling made by Dapol c.2004 or later

The tooling of non-Airfix originated Mainline wagons were owned by Kader who used them for Bachmann from 1990 with some in the meantime having been made for Replica, while unsold Mainline stock was acquired by Dapol who sold them as their own. Dapol also made a number of copy toolings:

3 plank - possibly due to mid 1980s production.
12T/24T Ore Hopper - copy tooling made in 2005
12T/14T Tank wagon - copy tooling made in 1990 and sold to Hornby in 1996; further poorly detailed copy tooling made in 2004
12T GWR Vent van - copy tooling made in 1991 - sold to Hornby in 1996
12T Mogo Van - copy tooling made in 1991 but not used - sold to Hornby in 1996

A further copy tooling made by Dapol, in 1995, was of the Lima PCA Prestflo V-Tank which was sold in 1996 to Hornby (who in 2004 acquired the Lima original).

Then their are the former Hornby Dublo/Wrenn 1950s/60s tooled wagons in the Dapol range acquired by them in 1992 which today use a Dapol plastic chassis - 5 plank, 16T steel mineral, Prestflo, Prestwin Silo, Bulk Grain, Salt van (Dapol also make their own similar Lime van), GW Fruit van, Fruit D (body adapted), GW Mica B, Gunpowder, 8T cattle, Banana van, BR vent van, LNER/BR Brake vans.
The Ore Hopper and 21T Hopper were superseded by the 2004/5 copies of the Airfix and Mainline models (above)
The 6 wheel tank was superseded in 2005 by a new model and the Fish van in 2013.
The 13T Steel Sided Open is from a Dapol replica of the original HD tooling.

To complete the swop of toolings the Dapol 1985 tooled Meat Van was part of the sale to Hornby in 1996.
Last edited by Mike Parkes on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12441
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:34 pm

The situation with ex Airfix and ex HD goods stock is even more complex. At one point Wrenn (then a Lines Bros company) were selling the Dublo super detail models using tools acquired by what was Triang and became Triang Hornby. They Only had the Plastic injection moulding tools, and not the one for the HD diecast chassis, but did have some stockpiled chassis. When Lines Bros went belly up Triang Hornby was taken over again but Wrenn were left adrift and downsized to become independent. This was the point at which Dapol stepped in already having bought the tooling for the Airfix kits and bought the tooling that Wrenn had from HD. For a time both Wrenn and Dapol were selling the old HD models, Wrenn ones being stockpiled bodies from when they had the tools, mounted on stockpiled chassis from HD via Triang, Dapol was selling the same bodies made from the HD tooling (or a copy) and mounted on a chassis of their own manufacture. The Dapol range then expanded further when they bought some of the tooling from the GMR (Airfix) range but the rest of the range had been absorbed into the Mainline range, which in itself was used by Dapol, who were to go on to sell all of their 00 models to Hornby after it became independent following a management buy out. Dapol obviously retained some of the tooling, or copies of it, from which they continued to produce small batches of parts (mainly bodies but also some chassis and motor bogies) which they sold from their factory shop and exhibition stands. I'm guessing but they probably negotiated the right to continue to make spare parts for models they had produced. There were plenty of 00 parts to be seen around the Llangollen Mill site when they were only selling their N gauge range. They still had some 00 stuff when they moved out to Chirk, I bought a 14xx motor/chassis (the modified design) from there. Perhaps someone with time on there hands and a very big sheet of paper, would like to produce a diagram mapping what went where and when.
Dad-1 and I discovered that at some point one of the sets of tooling for the cattle wagon had lost its central horizontal rail across the open upper sides, It was definitely their in HD days and everyone's cattle wagons now come with it in place, but on some that Dapol produced it is definitely missing.

[Edit] Sorry if that's difficult to follow, but that is probably the point I'm trying to make. I'm sure that by now the toolmakers from British Industrial Plastics wouldn't recognise their work for which they received such acclaim when the Dublo High Detail range was introduced.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Mike Parkes
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:25 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Mike Parkes » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:43 pm

To clarify / correct Bufferstops posting the timescale of the Hornby Dublo models is that Mecanno (their owners) were bought by Lines Bros in 1964. The Class 81 and the terminus station which were consumed into the new "merged" Triang- Hornby (ie 99.8% Triang). The remainder of HD toolings passed in 1966 to Triang-Wrenn. Lines Bros went into receivership in 1971 and the outcome was that both Triang-Hornb"y and Triang-Wrenn emerged as Hornby and Wrenn respectively. Wrenn continued production of the HD toolings and some new additions until 1992 when they were sold to Dapol. A fire in 1995 and sale c 2000 has left a number of the HD wagon body tools with Dapol.

Dapols history of acqusitions and disposals is:-
1981 - acquired a number of Airfix models and parts (but not tools)
1985 - acquired Mainlines non-Kader owned tools including those of the Airfix models along with stocks of made models of both Kader and non-Kader production
Late 1980s - acquired some Trix/Liliput tools including the bodies of the Transpennine DMU and Class 81
1992 - acquired Wrenn
1995 - Factory fire
1996 - Many OO toolings sold to Hornby
c 2000 - HD/Wrenn tooling, archives and assets sold to Mordvale bar the toolings for some wagon bodies
Last edited by Mike Parkes on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Parkes
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:25 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Mike Parkes » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:13 pm

Further, following the 1992 acquisition of Wrenn, Dapol sold three versions - ones catalogued with WR1 numbers were totally made up from parts that had been made by Wrenn, WR2 was a Wrenn made body on a Dapol chassis and WR3 a Dapol made body from the HD/Wrenn tooling on a Dapol chassis. WR3 were subsequently recatalogued with B numbers as per the rest of wagons until the more recent 4F catalogued numbers were introduced. Suppose its possible Wrenn boxes were used up for the WR1 models which would explain Bufferstops comment of Wrenn and Dapol selling the old HD models.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12441
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:27 pm

Blimey Mike you are just the man we need. Now where do I send this sheet of A1 sized paper? :D

There was a letter to the Railway Modeller and probably other mags explaining about the boxes, I can't remember the full details but it was something like If it was made from Wrenn produced parts it would be in a Wrenn box, if it was a hybrid it would either be in a Wrenn box with a Dapol sticker on it, or a plain box. If it was all Dapol it would be a Dapol box.
But there were reports from customers that it wasn't always that way and either it was a case of any box will do, or dealers were looking at them and putting them back in the wrong boxes.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Mike Parkes
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:25 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Mike Parkes » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:41 pm

Bufferstop wrote:Blimey Mike you are just the man we need. Now where do I send this sheet of A1 sized paper? :D

Just invest in a copy of British Model Trains Catalogue, you do not need a totally up to date one - the 9th edition is latest but not error free in terms of stuff produced since 2012 (or not as the case may be) and the 2004 4th edition which should cover all of this can be picked up on ebay for just £2.85 post free
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... ue&_sop=15

Bigmet
Posts: 7770
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Bigmet » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:52 pm

Bufferstop wrote:...There was a letter to the Railway Modeller and probably other mags explaining about the boxes ... But there were reports from customers that it wasn't always that way and either it was a case of any box will do, or dealers were looking at them and putting them back in the wrong boxes.

Never forget the 'after-purchase' problem as a contributor. A friend now ensconced in Canada was pursuing H-D and Wrenn collecting very actively when I restarted in model railways (about 20 years ago now, how time flies!) and would point out suspect items on dealer's stalls, based on detailed knowledge of the components and packaging. At that time he reckoned Wrenn was the most heavily 'tarted up' of all the expired and now collectable brands, with many people active in production of 'original/early Wrenn' from assemblages of parts and packaging various. The further consequence of course was the 'off-fall' combinations of the remaining parts from such operations. Mixtures all, and their new owners might well find that what they had bought didn't match what was supposed to have been produced...

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12441
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Dapol / Airfix / Mainline - Same Company ?

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:12 pm

I have a rake of 5 "Wrenn" Pullmans. One is a HD 2 rail model, you can see where it's had the Peco type coupling removed and a Tensionlock fitted, the bogies are obviously replacements as there's no sign of it ever having the clinched over wheel retainers. Of the other four two are fitted with plastic bogies and came with small diameter plastic wheels but ride at the correct height, the other two have diecast bogies fitted with 14mm wheels when I acquired them and still ride a bit high fitted with disc wagon wheels. All of them came in Wrenn boxes of various ages and conditions.Looked at as a rake they look quite convincing, it's only when you put one of the newer Hornby models alongside that you can see how they compressed the length, the odd millimetre here and there, but keeping the proportion between door and window sizes and stealing a bit more from the longer blank bits, the similar length Triang model from the same period simply misses out one window bay.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions


Return to “Other Model Railway Manufacturers and Gauges”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests