Kernow D600 Warship

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Bigmet
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Bigmet » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:16 am

D605Eagle wrote:I must say I'm super impressed with the model as a whole, it looks exactly like the prototype and runs great too. However for the price, I do think the added detail is of rather poor quality. Compare the pipework to those that come with the latest Bachmann 40, or Hornby 87 for example. They are more like the quality of pipes you got with early Heljan diesel model. Then there's the discs....OMG what a nightmare there are! 0 out of 10 for them. Very poor indeed.

I would be inclined to sit and think about these user fitted parts, to see if there is a better way. Meantime hoping that someone devises an improvement, or maybe even produces or locates/suggests some superior aftermarket alternatives.

It's a strange aspect of superior models, that small details matter more. I was initially somewhat disappointed by the Bachmann Cravens DMU (class 105) which is and remains a fine model, because Bachmann did not provide a close coupling mechanism which ISTM is such a natural feature for what are permanently coupled sets. (Hasn't stopped me buying half a dozen sets mind, and consequent on not having a close coupling mech they now have screw links and are next going to get bellows gangways.)

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Metadyneman
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Metadyneman » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:06 am

The second batch have now arrived at Kernow Model Centre and are being dispatched on a "date order was paid" basis. Hopefully my D600 in BR blue will be winging its way to my railway soon.
A voice from the distance said unto me "Smile, things could be worse" so I smiled and lo, things did get worse!

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Metadyneman
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Metadyneman » Wed May 08, 2019 11:39 am

My D600 has arrived but I've encountered severe problems with it on DCC. There are reports in the "other" forum of problems with the loco grinding to a halt after a short while running under load on DCC and mine is no exception. Kernow are recommending the use of the Dapol Imperium 1 decoder in it but reports from the "other" forum seem to indicate that Loksound 5 decoders are having problems coping with the coreless motor. I have so far used a ESU Lokpilot, A Bachmann 36-557 (basically another lokpilot) a Lenz silver and a Laisdcc decoder in mine and they all produce the same fault although the laisdcc lasted a lot longer before the loco ground to a halt. No harm seems to have come to either the loco or the decoder but the loco just "shuts down" after 10 minutes or so of constant running under load. I'm in communication with Kernow models about the problem and will report back when/if I hear more. I haven't replicated the problem under DC yet but at least one person has reported the fault running theirs on DC.
A voice from the distance said unto me "Smile, things could be worse" so I smiled and lo, things did get worse!

Bigmet
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Bigmet » Thu May 09, 2019 10:56 am

Ths shut down problem is nothing to do with DCC, but with some kind of overload protection that is installed on the model. This kicks in only when the loco is asked to pull a significant load for something like ten minutes or more (so many owners will never see the problem!). It seems this problem didn't affect the first batch of D600s released. Hopefully Kernow will be able to identify what has changed. (It could be as simple as the second batch getting bigger helpings of slightly stiffer grease in the drive trains...)

Whatever, this is one for the memory box. Four or five years from now, there will be posts like this:

"I just bought a Kernow D600, it's so clean and unmarked I don't think the first owner ever had it out of the box. While it looks perfect it cuts out afer running for ten minutes, but if I leave it a while it starts running normally again, goes for ten minutes and cuts out..."

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Bufferstop
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Bufferstop » Thu May 09, 2019 3:14 pm

It's either something mechanical, making the motor work too hard, or something wrong with the overload protection, my money's on the mechanicals.
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mahoganydog
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby mahoganydog » Thu May 09, 2019 5:20 pm

Just as a mad thought; could it be the motor bearings? I've had new motors run OK but get hot. Lubricating the bearings made them not only run better but not get hot.

Naturally check the instructions first, it could damage the motor!
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SRman
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby SRman » Thu May 09, 2019 11:45 pm

As Bigmet has said, it isn't anything to do with DCC, but it is a component that is at fault. There is a similar topic on another forum (starting with "RM" and ending in "web") and their fingers are pointing at a resettable fuse on the PCB. It looks like a capacitor but is an in-line fuse. The component sits under where the decoder plugs in, according to those who have been trouble-shooting their models.

Bigmet
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Bigmet » Fri May 10, 2019 10:37 am

Further to which, that there is a difference between the first group of releases - no such trouble reported - and the second group where this 'cutting out under sustained load' problem is observed, is helpful. (That's experience from owners of both who can make the comparison.) Hopefully that will give Kernow a lead in looking for the difference between the two groups of models.

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Metadyneman
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Metadyneman » Sun May 12, 2019 8:50 pm

I can confirm what Bigmet and SRman have said about the cause of this problem and I can put a few more bits of meat on the bone to clarify what it is.
It was I and another two contributors to the "other forum" who actually discovered exactly what the problem was. We spent one afternoon afternoon discussing it and testing various theories on our layouts.It all boiled down to the yellow disc like item on the PCB which looks like a capacitor but is in fact a re settable fuse otherwise known as a "polyswitch". A polyswitch is set to break an electrical circuit when it reaches a certain temperature and it re sets itself when the temperature returns to normal. It is clear from the rating on this "polyswitch" that it is not up to the job and it's cutting out the motor far too soon . The loco will grind to a halt after about 10 minutes with a load whether it is on DCC or DC. (I know this because I replicated the fault using DC and DCC). We experimented with various things including removing the polyswitch (because it was initially thought that it was a capacitor). We eventually worked out that by bridging the polyswitch with wire, the loco would run happily for more than an hour without showing any signs of stalling, slowing down or stopping.
I have been in communication with Kernow Models regarding this and they have said that they cannot comment yet until it has been established whether or not bridging the polyswitch invalidates the guarantee or if indeed the component is in fact faulty. I think it is just a matter of time before we hear something but for now, my D600 is perfectly happy running round without a polyswitch in the workings!!
A voice from the distance said unto me "Smile, things could be worse" so I smiled and lo, things did get worse!

Bigmet
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby Bigmet » Tue May 28, 2019 12:06 pm

Om the positive front, I see that at least one owner has been saved from burning out his coreless motored D600, thanks to the 'polyswitch' fuse action, when he plonked his newly received model without decoder onto a DCC track, intending to test run it on 'address 0'. Without the overcurrent protection, the minimal heatsinking of a coreless motor will lead to rapid burnout if the DCC track current is given 'unrestricted access'. ALWAYS with a decoder interposed in the circuit for operation on DCC...

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SRman
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Re: Kernow D600 Warship

Postby SRman » Tue May 28, 2019 11:32 pm

If anyone is interested, my D602 arrived two days ago, and after running in on DC I fitted a decoder. I had a choice of Dapol Imperium or Zimo MX638D. To make it easier to match and work with my recent class 22 purchase, I chose the Zimo decoder.

On testing, it ran beautifully but some of the lighting functions didn't work (all were OK on DC). Now, there is a useful little trick with Zimo Mx634 and MX638 family decoders: you can change them from having logic outputs to powered outputs on the auxiliary functions, and back again. Putting a value of 3 into CV8 changes the MX638D to an MX638C (ditto for the MX634). Doing this gave me all lighting functions - F0 = directional marker light/tail lights, F1 and F2 work the cab lights at each end, and F3 and F4 work the headcode lights at each end.

If you need to restore your Zimo decoder to the 'D' variant, program CV8 with a value of 4. Doing this does not actually change CV8, which is a fixed value showing the manufacturer's unique identifier code - there is some sort of magic electrical trickery involved within the decoder that simply works!


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