2022 Range

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren and Oxford Rail).
Bigmet
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2022 Range

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:07 am

Heaps of new introductions announced, so much of it you need to look at Hornby's site if full information is required!
Unsurprising, the 'Hornby-Dublo' line, of metal bodied locos specially presented in H-D boxes, expands to include A4 pacifics.

Good move, the Black 5 is to get an all new model, with provision for some of the many variations within this class. I should hope they can sell this in containerloads for many years to come, as it is such a key class for the steam scene.

Utterly wonderful move, LNER Coronation streamlined train in the original two tone blue livery. Hopefully they will think to produce it in BR liveries in years to come; BR never reinstated the trains complete (too embarassing, would have led to questions about why BR couldn't offer the same levels of performance the LNER achieved) but the vehicles continued in premium express service into the 1960s.

Those will prise the money out of my wallet, there's plenty of other items including a Flirt.

Buelligan
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Buelligan » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:46 pm

Well thank you very much! I'd managed to forget about the Hornby release today, so could well have been sold out by the time I remembered. As it is i've pre-ordered those articulated LNER coach packs! Oh well, saves me having to and make some from kits... Got a load of other tabs open of things I'm interested in, but can't get it all so need to put a bit more thought into some of it.


Ps. Not sure if I've accidentally put multiple orders in for the coaches, didn't seem to do anything the 1st time, so went through the order again, and now got 5 confirmation emails from Hornby... oops

Bigmet
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:41 pm

Buelligan wrote:... Not sure if I've accidentally put multiple orders in for the coaches, didn't seem to do anything the 1st time, so went through the order again, and now got 5 confirmation emails from Hornby... oops

That's possibly the right number for a full LNER complement, two sets with observation cars for London-Edinburgh, two sets without observation cars for London-Leeds and one spare set without observation car. Just think what your layout will look like with all four in service, belting along at over 100mph behind A4s, and perhaps the spare set at 'Doncaster', could be a display case on the layout room wall? :wink:

I'm probably going for the Black 5 first, such an essential loco for the last 30 years of UK steam operations, the last steam class I saw running in normal service. Previous models haven't convinced, so I hope this new model is a cracker, at least as good as their Thompson B1.

Buelligan
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Buelligan » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:09 pm

Bigmet wrote:That's possibly the right number for a full LNER complement, two sets with observation cars for London-Edinburgh, two sets without observation cars for London-Leeds and one spare set without observation car. Just think what your layout will look like with all four in service, belting along at over 100mph behind A4s, and perhaps the spare set at 'Doncaster', could be a display case on the layout room wall? :wink:


Haha! Not sure my card would be happy with the £2500 bill! I think I've figured it out anyway, first order didn't go through, think the time between me putting in the basket, then popping down stairs to get my wallet, making a pot of tea while there and then getting side tracked with other things, it timed out. The 5 emails seem to be one per coach/pack, its assigned an order number to each individual item, rather than doing it as one complete order. I have ordered a second set through TMC as their prices were lower.

Bigmet wrote:I'm probably going for the Black 5 first, such an essential loco for the last 30 years of UK steam operations, the last steam class I saw running in normal service. Previous models haven't convinced, so I hope this new model is a cracker, at least as good as their Thompson B1.


Side note, not intending to hijack this thread, but is the Hornby B1 any good? I'm in need of a replacement for my Bachmann split chassis 'Mayflower 61306' as its suffering running issues.

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RAF96
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby RAF96 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 pm

Buelligan wrote:
Bigmet wrote:That's possibly the right number for a full LNER complement, two sets with observation cars for London-Edinburgh, two sets without observation cars for London-Leeds and one spare set without observation car. Just think what your layout will look like with all four in service, belting along at over 100mph behind A4s, and perhaps the spare set at 'Doncaster', could be a display case on the layout room wall? :wink:


Haha! Not sure my card would be happy with the £2500 bill! I think I've figured it out anyway, first order didn't go through, think the time between me putting in the basket, then popping down stairs to get my wallet, making a pot of tea while there and then getting side tracked with other things, it timed out. The 5 emails seem to be one per coach/pack, its assigned an order number to each individual item, rather than doing it as one complete order. I have ordered a second set through TMC as their prices were lower.

Bigmet wrote:I'm probably going for the Black 5 first, such an essential loco for the last 30 years of UK steam operations, the last steam class I saw running in normal service. Previous models haven't convinced, so I hope this new model is a cracker, at least as good as their Thompson B1.


Side note, not intending to hijack this thread, but is the Hornby B1 any good? I'm in need of a replacement for my Bachmann split chassis 'Mayflower 61306' as its suffering running issues.


I have a Hornby B1 - Sir Harold Somebody and it runs well once I tweaked the drawbar to allow all the drivers to sit nice on track.
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Bigmet
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:05 pm

Buelligan wrote:...Side note, not intending to hijack this thread, but is the Hornby B1 any good?...

I have a couple, and would say the major improvement that Hornby have in their box of model making technique that could usefully be applied is to make the boiler in cast metal, to give the model more weight for adhesion. (The first 4-6-0 Hornby have applied this to is the B12/3, and the greater weight enables it to outpull all plastic bodied 4-6-0 models I have compared it to.)

The good news. Dimensions and shape are accurate, the mechanism is quiet and smooth running, and the detail and finish are well applied, and on mine detail has stayed put in regular operation. Like all RTR there can be small adjustments required of the sort that RAF96 describes, to optimise performance; I have fitted a soft spring to the bogie pivots of mine, squeezed in some lead for more weight for traction and adjusted the tender pick ups so that they barely contact the wheelbacks for less drag. Before adjustment it was good for eight or nine of Bachmann's mk1s or forty four wheel wagons on the level, but these locos could be seen with 60 wagons which the adjustments enable it to handle.

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby luckymucklebackit » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:07 am

Quite fancy a Caprotti Class 5, but it looks like that heafty price will be set if I understand the "web only" tag. Looks like it will only be available through the Hornby website and not any dealers, is this the start of a new trend?

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Bigmet
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:20 am

luckymucklebackit wrote:... Looks like it will only be available through the Hornby website and not any dealers, is this the start of a new trend?
It's a continuing development of a clear intent by Hornby to sell a significant volume of product directly, rather than via retailers. The quite recently introduced Hornby 'Tier' system for retailers limits the quantity sold by retailers, with Hornby's intent very clear, they want much of the retailer profit margin.

I see this as an inevitable development, Hornby are competing with both the larger retailers that have been creating their own brand products, and the the band of newer independent brands some of which are majoring on direct selling. Hornby are still working their way out of the debt position that the previous management created, so there's good reason for these actions.

I do see one upside. Hornby will see the end customer problems directly rather than filtered via retailers. 'All detail fall off right now', 'doesn't go', 'mangled in transit due to poor packaging' and the like; will come right back through Hornby's door.

Bigmet
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:43 am

luckymucklebackit wrote:Quite fancy a Caprotti Class 5...

Watch, wait and see for me, and use the time to do some research on what Black 5 subset was most likely to appear at the KX end of the ECML, so I can pick the most appropriate release from whatever Hornby produce.

(And on a different subject, I expect 2023's announcement will include the Stanier 8F, which is equally in need of a 'current standard' model. Surely having at last picked up the need for a better Black 5, Hornby won't ignore Stanier's other large class?)
Last edited by Bigmet on Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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centenary
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby centenary » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:25 pm

Just got this in an email from one shop: "In line with Hornby's T&C's we do have to raise the prices on advertised website prices, and therefore any new pre-orders will be at the new prices, but existing pre-orders will stay at the pre-January 1st 2022 prices. What the?!

This seems like restrictive practices by Hornby, shops have to increase website prices in line with Hornby's T&Cs 'or else'? No wonder Rails have issues with Hornby and Im surprised other shops dont give them the Agincourt salute but probably for these smaller shops, it's toe the line or go out of business.

Much as Id like to buy the new Black 5 model, Kohler can take a hike.

Bigmet
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Bigmet » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:29 pm

centenary wrote:...Much as Id like to buy the new Black 5 model, Kohler can take a hike.

How about if he's retired by the time it comes out? :wink:

I may be completely wrong in my assessment, but there's no way Mr Kohler is defining Hornby's business strategy in my opinion. As an example, I have talked to him on a couple of occasions in the past suggesting a better marketing strategy would be to clearly segment the range into 'Basic trainset' (what began as Railroad), 'Standard' (Hornby) and 'Best' (any name you like that expresses this, my suggestion the LNWR claim of 'Premier Line' a genune railway title going begging there...): and he was dead against it. But what do we now see happening? Much better segmentation of the range.

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centenary
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby centenary » Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:38 pm

Bigmet wrote:
centenary wrote:...Much as Id like to buy the new Black 5 model, Kohler can take a hike.

How about if he's retired by the time it comes out? :wink:

I may be completely wrong in my assessment, but there's no way Mr Kohler is defining Hornby's business strategy in my opinion. As an example, I have talked to him on a couple of occasions in the past suggesting a better marketing strategy would be to clearly segment the range into 'Basic trainset' (what began as Railroad), 'Standard' (Hornby) and 'Best' (any name you like that expresses this, my suggestion the LNWR claim of 'Premier Line' a genune railway title going begging there...): and he was dead against it. But what do we now see happening? Much better segmentation of the range.


Yeah if he's retired or maybe SWMBO can buy the Black 5 for herself?!

Pretty much agree with all you said there. I appreciate Hornby have been losing money hand over fist but, imposing what imho are restrictive practices of small retailers isnt on.

CasperGriswoldBacon
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:49 am

I think Hornby can do what they like because they've sussed that their buyers are their own worse enemies and will buy anything regardless of the price and the quality. I've seen so many reviews of the Hush Hush loco that ends with DON'T BUY THIS THING, but you know they'll be buying the new Class 5 when it comes along. If paying 250 quid for a airfix kit strength plastic body, sub-standard painting and even rear bogies that don't touch the rails doesn't put you off, then nothing will. And that's if you get it in once piece.

Bigmet
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Bigmet » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:19 am

Absolutely, they do trade on THAT name pulling them out of the mire. Several times over the past twenty years I have thought they were taking it too far, and the immediately previous management very nearly sank the business, but here they are, still trading.

Personally, pragmatism rules. I want to see the product before making a purchase, and that applies to all the brands in this hobby sector; but Hornby is the one where the most stringent appraisal applies. There are plenty of competitors now, capable of doing a good job; and the product all comes out of the same Chinese manufacturing system. So the competition is about which brand specifies the best design and construction standards. The problem I have with Hornby is that you just don't know what has been specified for a model of potential interest, it's 'wait and see'. (The 9F a case in point, Hornby appear to be e perpetuating the variation in coupled axle spacing from their previous model- BEEP! - nul points!)

Another aspect of the Hornby announcements that's really unwelcome, that's the pricing of their proven good smaller steam loco models. Hornby took some time to realise that Bachmann were all over smaller steam locos, and winning a reputation among those that know that for every pacific there's a dozen smaller secondary tender and tank locos running alongside. The M7 was I think their first good small tank loco (2007?), and the rerelease for 2022 is listed at just shy of £200. That will put a crimp on the sales of the 'smaller and good' I feel, with the inevitable result of fewer of such product introductions from Hornby.

But I have had a good run from Hornby with their M7, B12/3, D16/3, J15, J36, J50, K1, L1, all done well, and newer competitor's activity has brought welcome additions of small locos, perhaps this keeps the door open for them.

Buelligan
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Re: 2022 Range

Postby Buelligan » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:02 pm

Having mixed feelings about the Hush Hush that arrived before Christmas, I have subsequently cancelled both my pre-orders for the streamlined garter blue version, and the silver/grey liveried version, especially as the price has increased significantly. The sensible part of me is saying to put the money to one side to pay for the articulated coach sets I've ordered. The other less sensible part of me, that would still like to collect an A4 in each name, is saying to use the money to preorder the 2 A4's announced...


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