Triang R357

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
timgray
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:51 pm

Triang R357

Postby timgray » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:36 pm

Evening All
I recently purchase a Triang R 357 as a non runner.
I managed to get it to run but it was very noisy on the straight and would not go slowly.
I wondered if this was a characteristic of the magadheison, It then stopped altogether.
On taking the motor apart I noticed that some small bits of plastic fell out and identified that the bits were part of the armature support plastic bearings.
The armature has a lot of movement in the vertical plane and I assume the armature is touching the magnet when the motor is rotating as it is hard to turn the armature by hand.
So my question is is there a repair for this or shall I find another power bogie? I have found another armature on ebay but this has white plastic bearings and mine are black so I wonder if these are compatible.
In anticipation Thanks for your advice.

User avatar
Ironduke
Posts: 1186
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:04 am
Location: Ballarat Victoria Australia
Contact:

Re: Triang R357

Postby Ironduke » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:52 pm

Hi Timgray,
Can you post some photos?
Regards
Rob

User avatar
SRman
Posts: 1112
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:26 am

Re: Triang R357

Postby SRman » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:37 am

The bearings are necessary, just as you surmised. Without them, the armature will bind on the magnets. The ability of it to float also affects how the brushes sit against the commutator.

I don't think there is any difference between white or black plastic bearings, they seem to be a standard part.

These motors can be noisy even at their best, and slow running is not their forte, but they should be able to run smoothly, and I think all of your running problems are down to those plastic support bearings breaking down.

Bigmet
Posts: 8370
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Triang R357

Postby Bigmet » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:55 am

Agree with what has been posted by 'SRMan', but frankly from here the news only gets worse. The usual reason for plastic components breaking up on Triang-Hornby product is use of an inappropriate lubricant at some time in the past, our ever popular 'friend' WD40 will do this for example. There are no newly made spares direct from the factory as production ceased about 40 years ago, so obtaining parts or a complete replacement bogie in good condition and unlikely to badly degrade is a gamble.

timgray wrote:...it was very noisy on the straight and would not go slowly...

Yup, and they were like that when new! Worm gears are horribly inefficient and with two absorbing much of the motor output the mechanism jerked into motion as the motor overcame the resistance, and all the mechanism noise was directly coupled to the track because the gear axles were on flanged wheels. (The same basic motor design driving a single axle on an unflanged wheel which didn't contact the rail was much better, smoother starting, ran slower and quieter running.)

As always, it is your choice: going to throw money at something that wasn't a brilliant design and with no new spares, or move on to something much better? I would only recommend the latter: large can motor driving both bogies is now standard: smooth running, quiet, excellent traction, reliable. It's like the move from a Morris Minor to a current production automatic car...

CasperGriswoldBacon
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Triang R357

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:58 am

timgray wrote:Evening All
I recently purchase a Triang R 357 as a non runner.
I managed to get it to run but it was very noisy on the straight and would not go slowly.
I wondered if this was a characteristic of the magadheison, It then stopped altogether.
On taking the motor apart I noticed that some small bits of plastic fell out and identified that the bits were part of the armature support plastic bearings.
The armature has a lot of movement in the vertical plane and I assume the armature is touching the magnet when the motor is rotating as it is hard to turn the armature by hand.
So my question is is there a repair for this or shall I find another power bogie? I have found another armature on ebay but this has white plastic bearings and mine are black so I wonder if these are compatible.
In anticipation Thanks for your advice.



think you're correct about the source of the noise although they're not the quietest anyway.. You can I believe use the same armature from the triang class 37 if that's cheaper/easier to source. I take it you mean the plastic part just behind the worm is broken?

Image

According to the services sheets i think they used the same parts throughout its run

http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=22

mossdp
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:25 pm

Re: Triang R357

Postby mossdp » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:49 am

A small bit of plastic in place of the broken bit should do the trick. Maybe a small cross section slice of cable insulation with an offcut of a cocktail stick or match stick inside might work. Also check your plastic before you recycle it for a suitable piece of plastic that could be quickly trimmed to size. You are looking for something that is fairly firm but with a small amount of springiness. If you need to buy a spare armature with the bearings, it is part X247. Sometimes come up for sale on eBay or elsewhere.

21C1
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:18 pm
Location: Dorset UK

Re: Triang R357

Postby 21C1 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:20 am

Scalespeed http://www.scalespeed.co.uk/ will refurbish these motor bogies and X03 X04 motors. Also
Dublo/Wrenn vertical and ringfield ones. Tel: 01329 665045 or 07774253352.

timgray
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:51 pm

Re: Triang R357

Postby timgray » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:48 am

Thanks for the replies, currently watching an alternative armature with what looks like good condition plastic bearings or an alternative power bogie.

Ebay is a bit odd on occasions as a part is sometimes more expensive that a whole replacement loco.

Failing that I will give scale speed an email and see what they suggest to keep the old one rolling for a bit longer.

Bye for now

Tim

timgray
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:51 pm

Re: Triang R357

Postby timgray » Mon May 17, 2021 9:38 pm

Fixed with an alternative power bogie thanks folks

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 4838
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Triang R357

Postby Mountain » Mon May 17, 2021 11:44 pm

Ooh. I may have one of them.

gppsoftware
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:34 am

Re: Triang R357

Postby gppsoftware » Mon May 24, 2021 1:00 am

There was another problem with these mechanisms whereby the plastic axle ends would wear down, thereby placing the full weight of the loco on the worm drive. This caused very jerky movement while the motor tried to overcome the friction.

CasperGriswoldBacon
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Triang R357

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Mon May 24, 2021 3:13 pm

gppsoftware wrote:There was another problem with these mechanisms whereby the plastic axle ends would wear down, thereby placing the full weight of the loco on the worm drive. This caused very jerky movement while the motor tried to overcome the friction.


I actually found 2 of these motors over the weekend that I had forgotten I had. One attached to a completely knackered Class 31 I bought from Ebay that i'd obviously deemed not worth repairing (changed my mind now) and a Class 37 chassis with a working motor but no body. No idea where that one came from. The class 31 was totally dead and locked up so I spent yesterday trying to get something from it. I eventually worked out that the plastic axle ends came loose whenever the motor tried to spin and jammed it into the motor/magnet housing which sounds similar to what you describe. A bit of superglue fixed it, and it now turns freely, but I think the motor has had it anyway, probably damaged from being jammed up on full power.


Return to “Hornby - including Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests