Hornby flogging another dead horse

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
Bigmet
Posts: 8038
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Bigmet » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:08 pm

Two problems with Steampunk: I feel they missed the peak by several years, and it is such a limp interpretation.

CasperGriswoldBacon wrote:...I've been watching a few youtube videos of people buying tat from the likes of Wish.com and Ali-express and Hornby have no presence there. Maybe they think it's below them, but when you get companies selling complete junk kids train sets that are more expensive than a Hornby starter set you have to wonder if they're missing a trick ...

They are missing a trick, but in my opinion it's due to inability to supply such vendors. Such operations will contract for 'a quantity' - think in units like 10,000 - delivered on some precise date immediately before the demand starts its seasonal upswing, and at a razor sharp price. Hornby simply don't have a manufacturing supply chain that can do that.

CasperGriswoldBacon
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:40 pm

Bigmet wrote:Two problems with Steampunk: I feel they missed the peak by several years, and it is such a limp interpretation.

CasperGriswoldBacon wrote:...I've been watching a few youtube videos of people buying tat from the likes of Wish.com and Ali-express and Hornby have no presence there. Maybe they think it's below them, but when you get companies selling complete junk kids train sets that are more expensive than a Hornby starter set you have to wonder if they're missing a trick ...

They are missing a trick, but in my opinion it's due to inability to supply such vendors. Such operations will contract for 'a quantity' - think in units like 10,000 - delivered on some precise date immediately before the demand starts its seasonal upswing, and at a razor sharp price. Hornby simply don't have a manufacturing supply chain that can do that.


yeah, had to laugh at the standard buildings with a bolt stuck on here and there :lol: Still if i had the money its the sort of stuff i'd buy up because in 20 years time you can bet it will have rarity value with a high premium price if its discontinued sharpish like I think it will be.

You could be right with the capacity issue. Still you can pick-up even something like a Hornby Santa train set for £50 pounds off ebay which is cheaper than a lot of the outright tat on sites like Wish. Even a more basic cheaper made set would clean up on there i reckon. According to google 90m use Wish monthly so that's a lot of desperate impulse-tat buyers you're ignoring.

Bigmet
Posts: 8038
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Bigmet » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:03 am

CasperGriswoldBacon wrote:...yeah, had to laugh at the standard buildings with a bolt stuck on here and there :lol: Still if i had the money its the sort of stuff i'd buy up because in 20 years time you can bet it will have rarity value with a high premium price if its discontinued sharpish like I think it will be...

The trick there is to wait for the 'fire sale' to shift the unsold items, to have the smallest possible outlay.

I feel the more difficult aspect is spotting the selling opportunity IF it comes about that future collectors actually want these items. An acquaintance still owns a 'desireable version' of a Hornby-Dublo Castle, in as new condition in its box, which he got all excited about when a dealer offered him £250 in about 1995. I suggested he try and squeeze a little more out of the dealer, but he wasn't letting it go for anything like that little, it was easily worth twice as much. In short he was going to hold for further appreciation.

Came the day around 2010, that he had to majorly declutter for a house move for his retirement. So he was going to sell. Best dealer offer or auction reserve was about £50. Totally insulted when he was told that the very high prices in the past had flushed out quite a quantity, and what with a dwindling collector base for H-D the desireability factor was now well down...

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 4577
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Mountain » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:32 am

Some of those last remaining Wrenn locos in 1995 were selling for big money. I saw prices like £575 for some locos.

User avatar
RailwayRobbo
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:32 pm
Location: Deepest, Darkest Northants.

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby RailwayRobbo » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:08 pm

I read somewhere that Hornby sales were up 33% during the first lockdown.

Pete

Bigmet
Posts: 8038
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Bigmet » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:14 pm

RailwayRobbo wrote:I read somewhere that Hornby sales were up 33% during the first lockdown.

The current Hornby business got a helping a helping hand from Covid. It's an ill wind that blows no-one any good...

Mountain wrote:Some of those last remaining Wrenn locos in 1995 were selling for big money. I saw prices like £575 for some locos.

It's pretty much all over now for H-D and Wrenn. Because the current Hornby 8F is too light for decent traction, I had been looking for years for a decent price on an H-D or Wrenn 8F body to put on the current model's mechanism - which is more than good enough to obtain the traction required, with the extra weight a cast metal body provides. Estupido prices asked for 8F bodies on the rare occasions they were offered.

Long story short, I ended up buying a complete H-D Ringfield motor 8F for £40 earlier this year. That's more like it! This provided the added fun of letting me assess whether my childhood memory of its traction was authentic. and it was...

User avatar
RailwayRobbo
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:32 pm
Location: Deepest, Darkest Northants.

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby RailwayRobbo » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:26 pm

Bigmet wrote:
RailwayRobbo wrote:I read somewhere that Hornby sales were up 33% during the first lockdown.

The current Hornby business got a helping a helping hand from Covid. It's an ill wind that blows no-one any good...

That was my thinking as well.

CasperGriswoldBacon
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:49 pm

Bigmet wrote:
CasperGriswoldBacon wrote:...yeah, had to laugh at the standard buildings with a bolt stuck on here and there :lol: Still if i had the money its the sort of stuff i'd buy up because in 20 years time you can bet it will have rarity value with a high premium price if its discontinued sharpish like I think it will be...

The trick there is to wait for the 'fire sale' to shift the unsold items, to have the smallest possible outlay.

I feel the more difficult aspect is spotting the selling opportunity IF it comes about that future collectors actually want these items. An acquaintance still owns a 'desireable version' of a Hornby-Dublo Castle, in as new condition in its box, which he got all excited about when a dealer offered him £250 in about 1995. I suggested he try and squeeze a little more out of the dealer, but he wasn't letting it go for anything like that little, it was easily worth twice as much. In short he was going to hold for further appreciation.

Came the day around 2010, that he had to majorly declutter for a house move for his retirement. So he was going to sell. Best dealer offer or auction reserve was about £50. Totally insulted when he was told that the very high prices in the past had flushed out quite a quantity, and what with a dwindling collector base for H-D the desireability factor was now well down...


Well I think the actual loco's are distinctive enough to probably attract the collectors especially if they bomb. The other stuff like the buildings, coaches etc., probably less so just because they're so...crap. As you say, see if there's a firesale down the line.

oof! Wasn't aware Wrenn had bombed. I have a mint/unused A4, 8F and Castle stored for a rainy day, as well as an old HD castle. As someone who once sold an empty wrenn box for 50 pounds this is not good news :roll: I did get good money for an A4 last christmas but that was a rare green Great Snipe one. I like them personally, but they were always totally overpriced i guess

Meister
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Meister » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:29 pm

When Wrenn closed in 1992 the prices went crazy for a few years then slowly declined. A natural correction, you might say. I would not say that Wrenn have bombed but prices have definitely softened from what they were a few years back. Ironically when I was a youngster in the early 1980s new Wrenn could often be bought heavily discounted as even then interest was waning, the situation no doubt aided and abetted by the deep recession. Oh the Wrenn bargains I bagged back in '82/'83! So if you bought when prices were sky high in the 1990s then yes, you are more than likely going to sell at a loss today. Tastes are always changing so the trick is to buy cheaply and sell when prices are high, which more often than not comes down to pot luck.

User avatar
luckymucklebackit
Posts: 3508
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:05 am
Location: Troon - where the Duchesses went to die
Contact:

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby luckymucklebackit » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:44 pm

Think there are one or two HD/Wrenn models that still command top dollar, the HD electric (AL1?) was not made in huge numbers and there is also the HD EMU which will set you back a couple of hindred. Was there not limited edition versions of the N2 tank in Southern or GWR livery that are very sought after?

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
Image

CasperGriswoldBacon
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby CasperGriswoldBacon » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:02 pm

Meister wrote:When Wrenn closed in 1992 the prices went crazy for a few years then slowly declined. A natural correction, you might say. I would not say that Wrenn have bombed but prices have definitely softened from what they were a few years back. Ironically when I was a youngster in the early 1980s new Wrenn could often be bought heavily discounted as even then interest was waning, the situation no doubt aided and abetted by the deep recession. Oh the Wrenn bargains I bagged back in '82/'83! So if you bought when prices were sky high in the 1990s then yes, you are more than likely going to sell at a loss today. Tastes are always changing so the trick is to buy cheaply and sell when prices are high, which more often than not comes down to pot luck.


I think my Dad did the same. Certainly bought them in the 80's. Just had a look and £29.90 seem reasonable for a Wrenn A4 :D Even with inflation £103 quid sounds okay considering a railroad one will set you back more.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12696
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:50 pm

On the steampunk front I think they've come in past it's peak and I doubt there's that much interest in models, Steampunk is more of a role play/costume scene. Did they put it out under the Basset Lowke brand in case it bombed, doubt WB-L would be impressed by the move.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Meister
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Meister » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:10 pm

CasperGriswoldBacon wrote:
Meister wrote:When Wrenn closed in 1992 the prices went crazy for a few years then slowly declined. A natural correction, you might say. I would not say that Wrenn have bombed but prices have definitely softened from what they were a few years back. Ironically when I was a youngster in the early 1980s new Wrenn could often be bought heavily discounted as even then interest was waning, the situation no doubt aided and abetted by the deep recession. Oh the Wrenn bargains I bagged back in '82/'83! So if you bought when prices were sky high in the 1990s then yes, you are more than likely going to sell at a loss today. Tastes are always changing so the trick is to buy cheaply and sell when prices are high, which more often than not comes down to pot luck.


I think my Dad did the same. Certainly bought them in the 80's. Just had a look and £29.90 seem reasonable for a Wrenn A4 :D Even with inflation £103 quid sounds okay considering a railroad one will set you back more.


I think ~£30 was Hatton's 'regular' discounted price for the Wrenn A4 in the early '80s, with the Hornby A4 being the thick end of £10 less. You could get Wrenn with huge discounts in clearance sales though. My best buys were probably a pair of 08 shunters for £7.90 each (£19.95 sticker price) and a Brighton Belle EMU for £21.50 (£41.95 sticker price). My best buys of '82!

User avatar
Alexander Court
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:42 pm
Location: Waterville, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Alexander Court » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:11 pm

Given that for the Steam Punk range they used the Mid Suffolk Light Railway Mendlesham Station (from the museum down the road of where I grew up) building from the main range (Which I still need to acquire for nostalgia purposes) there is a chance that weirdly you could replicate/cosplay something from the BL SP range by covering the Middy's station building in pointless oversized pieces of bloody nonsense xD

Alex

"I love the way you call it Art, When you never even use your Heart, and I just wanna tear you Apart"

Meister
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Hornby flogging another dead horse

Postby Meister » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:26 pm

Bufferstop wrote:On the steampunk front I think they've come in past it's peak and I doubt there's that much interest in models, Steampunk is more of a role play/costume scene. Did they put it out under the Basset Lowke brand in case it bombed, doubt WB-L would be impressed by the move.


OK, back to steampunk. They are not my 'thing' and I would not pay anything like RRP for any of the items. However, the weird 0-4-0s are sort of interesting and I might consider one if the price was right, i.e. ~£25. For me basically a novelty item for display/very occasional use and the chassis could always be used for a project. For £40, forget it! You are right about the branding, B-L is completely wrong. If Hornby still own the Minix brand (OO plastic vehicles) they should have launched them as MinixRail to compete with Bachmann's EFERail!


Return to “Hornby - including Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests