Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
BobDM
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Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby BobDM » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:15 pm

How could I be so stupid!

A tempting offer from Rails of Sheffield and I lost my usual wariness of buying any loco made by Hornby.

Luckily it arrived at the same time as my copy of Model Rail which gave the model a good rating for appearance but not so good on performance. Apparently it derails on curves. Yes you read that right - CURVES not fancy point work.

They thought they might solve the problem by removing the piece of bubblewrap that someone had put over the front bogie. It didn't. They tried it on 2 different layouts.

When I looked at my model what did I see? Yes, you've guessed - a piece of bubblewrap over the front bogie.

What kind of company sells a locomotive that can only run on straight track and has a piece of bubblewrap as part of the solution to what is clearly a major design fault for a RRP of nearly 190 quid?

Needless to say it's going straight back.

Bigmet
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby Bigmet » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:55 pm

You are not alone in finding a piece of plastic bubblewrap packaging above the bogie, general opinion is that it is there for transport only, and should be removed.

(Sounds like another class review from Model Rail. I'd expect a reviewer to actually describe why the derailment occurs, and at least suggest how to sort out the problem, even if not prepared to attempt it as part of the review.)

Hornby's bogie mounting is prone to the problem of the working end of the bracket where it engages the pivot pin on the bogie being at the wrong height above the bogie top. If too low, lifts the front end of the loco causing loss of traction, if too high may lift the bogie making it likely to derail. Three leading potential causes in my opinion starting from the most common:
Bracket bends incorrectly shaped, either as produced or when installed on loco.
Bracket able to fit but not correctly located fully 'home' on the chassis block position when it was installed.
Bracket oversize and not able to be inserted into the chassis slot location.

I have seen all three of these faults over the years on their locos that have leading bogies.

There's a major complicating factor in the case of a streamlined Princess Coronation (is yours a streamliner?). Even with the bogie mounted correctly in all respects, the fact that scale diameter bogie wheel tops are inside the streamlined shroud means they will foul on smaller radius set track curves, and that too will lead to derailements. (Same applies to the original condition A4 with full side valances.) This is not a fault on the model, it's because the design of the loco body is accurate. Hornby got around this in the past on the streamlined Coronation by supplying an alternative bogie with much smaller than scale diameter wheelsets. A slightly better dodge than the horrible flangeless wheelset for the rear truck...

mjb1961
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby mjb1961 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:50 pm

Well,well,well,,,i took delivery of my Princess Coronation King George V1on Monday ,,,the strange thing is ,if I run it clockwise the front pony truck lifts off the rails on 3rd radius and back on the rails when it enters the straight ,but if I run it anti clockwise it runs a treat ,,,time to look for some bubble wrap :D :D

mjb1961
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby mjb1961 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:29 pm

Just removed the bubble wrap and now he runs clockwise,,,,can't blame Hornby for trying to protect the loco in transit but I'm sure they could put a little note in the packaging to let you know ,, :D :D :D

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End2end
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby End2end » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:45 pm

Bigmet wrote:the fact that scale diameter bogie wheel tops are inside the streamlined shroud means they will foul on smaller radius set track curves, and that too will lead to derailements. (Same applies to the original condition A4 with full side valances.)

Thanks for that nugget of info Bigmet. :wink: I eventually would like a green A4 but now will definatly not go for a valanced A4.
Thanks
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BobDM
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby BobDM » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:04 pm

Yes it is streamlined.
Looking at these comments does this mean I should delay sending it back. because after I remove the bubblewrap, it will run clockwise and anticlockwise providing I only run it on 1st radius curves?
The box says the mininum radius curves are 438 mm so I was never going to run it on 3rd radius ones and I can't believe the reviewers at Model Rail did either, but it did derail on 2 different layouts they tried.
I don't really want to send it back but, if it is going to cause nothing but problems, is it worth the hassle?

mjb1961
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby mjb1961 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:15 pm

BobDM wrote:Yes it is streamlined.
Looking at these comments does this mean I should delay sending it back. because after I remove the bubblewrap, it will run clockwise and anticlockwise providing I only run it on 1st radius curves?
The box says the mininum radius curves are 438 mm so I was never going to run it on 3rd radius ones and I can't believe the reviewers at Model Rail did either, but it did derail on 2 different layouts they tried.
I don't really want to send it back but, if it is going to cause nothing but problems, is it worth the hassle?


Bob,,,I think you have got your radiuses mixed up ,,rad 1 is tighter than rad 3 ,,I've run my King George V1 ( streamlined ) on rad 2 but he is better on rad 3 ,,you shouldn't have any problems ,,,mjb

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captrees
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby captrees » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:48 am

Interesting post. Was considering buying a Hornby Coronation Class because my new Bachman Jubilee is having trouble derailing on curves, but I haven't pulled it apart yet to adjust front bogie. Should I try bubblewrap first? :lol: :o

BobDM
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby BobDM » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:28 am

Bob,,,I think you have got your radiuses mixed up ,,rad 1 is tighter than rad 3 ,,I've run my King George V1 ( streamlined ) on rad 2 but he is better on rad 3 ,,you shouldn't have any problems ,,,mjb


Oops! That is the problem when you are new to the hobby.

Perhaps it would be worth trying to run it as I do have some 3rd and 2nd radius curves. The problem is I still haven't got a layout thanks to ongoing building work.

Bigmet
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby Bigmet » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:33 am

captrees wrote:...my new Bachman Jubilee is having trouble derailing on curves, but I haven't pulled it apart yet to adjust front bogie. Should I try bubblewrap first? ...

I have had only the briefest acquaintance with a friend's Bachmann Jube (current version) some years ago. (I am not buying until they produce the promised sloping throatplate boiler version!)

It's a good model in their usual style and should be good down to R2. One thing to be aware of is that on set track you can only couple the tender on the long setting on the drawbar. On the shorter setting, the rigid intermediate buffers bind on the dragbox face when on curves, and the usual thing then is that the loco bogie comes off the rails. If the loco stays on the rails coupled on the longer setting, that's the most likely cause.

It is often possible to fix this type of problem by filing down the moulded intermediate buffers so that when loco and tender are coupled on the shorter setting, there is no binding between loco and tender on the smallest radius on the layout. This has to be determined by experiment by the owner. I cannot give any detailed advice or be positive that it will work on this loco as Peter wasn't up for me carving his lovely new Jube about. (I have done this style of mod on the majority on all my tender locos to enable them to tackle my 30" minimum radius curves with loco and tender at scale separation, which looks really well: especially on models that have a fall plate and cab doors, properly overlapping fixed structure so the crew cannot fall off the footplate.)

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Free_at_last
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Re: Princess Coronation class Queen Elizabeth - another Hornby dud

Postby Free_at_last » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:02 pm

I ran my Streamlined Coronation straight out of the box with no problem, it was only when changing the front bogie for the one with larger diameter wheels that I noticed and removed the packing piece.
I tried the flanged rear wheel but the loco stalled on my Peco slips so I had to put the flangeless set back on. I found it to be a nice smooth running loco.
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