New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
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GaryB
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New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby GaryB » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:57 pm

Hi, not been here for ages, it's amazing how kids take up all of your spare time & money!

Anyway, I'm back onto a new layout build and have been collecting various items of rolling stock. My track is Peco Streamline, code 100 and some of my coaches are (immaculate) older Hornby/Triang and they do not like the Peco (medium radius) points or crossings, it's the "frog" area that causes them to de-rail, my newer Lima coaches are okay so I'm guessing it might be something to do with the flange depth of the older wheels, but I honestly thought they'd be okay with code 100 trackwork.

I don't want to get rid of the coaches as they're in great condition so is it possible to fit newer wheel sets to them?

Thanks

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6C
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby 6C » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:14 pm

Some of the Triang and Triang-derived from the 1970's stock had incredibly coarse wheel profiles - such that it was too wide (the wheel profile) to pass through the frog/vee of the points - I remember this particularly on the locos e.g triang hornby Hymek, but also on the stock.

Good new you can like I have replace them with modern Hornby wheels without modification. They even do different sizes - for most the 14.1mm, R8218 for coaches will fit.

They do not fit the even older Triang stock with open axleboxes, however...
Pete

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Mountain
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby Mountain » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:59 pm

For Metal Chassis or Metal Coach Bogies.
Triang wheels are easily replaced to modern metal ones... keep the old Triang axles as you need these to mount the new wheels on. Slide new wheels and make axle spacers from drinks straw that go between the bogie or wagon chassis and the wheels. Is a little of a handful to slide the new wheels and spacers on but the results are nice modern wheels.
Of course one needs 10.5 or 12.5 mm wheels to suite the appropiate chassis or bogies. I use 10.5 for the bogies which I use for 7mm narrow gauge waggons. Also one will need to set the new wheels to the required gauge on the old Triang axles.
For Triang plastic bogies and chassis.
Use top hat brass bearings (E.g. Romford or Makit bearings), drill holes in the sides of the axleboxes from the outsides. Fit the bearings and use complete new wheels. They whould work extremely well. If you can put the bearings in loose do so (As the wheels can run a little more freely) but a little glue makes the job easier. After replacing the wheels and fitting bearings, use a filler or Das modelling clay to fill the hole of the outside of the axleboxes and paint over the top to the required colour.

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Bufferstop
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:32 pm

After abandoning the split wheelsets on steel axles did Triang or Triang/Hornby introduce an all plastic wheelers or did they go directly to the metal tyres on plastic hubs/axles. I wasn't buying 00 in that period, when I came back they were using the metal tyres on wheels which had a square axle. As son as they became available I started on a program of changing for the new finer all metal wheels. I limited this to the models that Hornby acquired from Dapol, as those from the Margate tooling all have the buffer height too high by 1-2mm and they had the monster size D coupler.
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D605Eagle
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby D605Eagle » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:31 pm

Because of the ride height, although the correct replacement wheels are 14.1mm, you need to use 12.5mm ones to stop the coaches riding too high. You can lower the coach onto the bogies to compensate if you want, but it involves a lot of work. The early 70s triang coaches were used up until a few years ago believe it or not, the only real upgrade was flush glazing and better (but still too small) profile wheels.

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Bufferstop
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:13 pm

The old Triang tooled bodies are ok, virtually all of the discrepancy is in the bogie. By the time you've replaced the wheels and the coupler replacing the whole bogie is a better choice. You may need to cut out the old pivot stud and plate over the hole to get a good pivot but it's a lot less of a fiddle than trying to fit a new style coupler to the old bogies. A suitable or near match one from Bachmann's spares is a good choice as they come with wheels and couplings.
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Mountain
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby Mountain » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:18 pm

The silver seal wheels with the square axles. They normally ran well but some didn't run true. They also did a similar wheel but with round axles and these were true and ran very well indeed. When I changed a few wheels for modern wheels a friend was queueing up as he wanted the round axle silver seal wheels. I hadn't until then realized how good they are.

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GaryB
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby GaryB » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:03 am

Thanks for all the comments, certainly some things to think about.

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Ken Shabby
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby Ken Shabby » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:47 pm

I did a very easy bodge/ fix on a rake of Triang coaches with the split axles and open axle boxes. I just eased the 2 halves of the plastic axle apart and wrapped a tiny sliver of blue tack between the 2 halves to alter the back to back measurements. A little bit of trial and error was needed , but the coaches now run fine through my code 100 Peco points. I also oiled the axle ends with some suitable oil I bought from Hattons.
The modification is of course non perminant and easily removed If required.

Ken

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Bufferstop
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:04 pm

The split half wheelsets were to intended to be free to slide from side to side and the wheels to be able to move apart to negotiate the early Triang points. One half was free to slide on the axle, the other half slid from side to side with the axle. They didn't take well to conventional points which led to the introduction by Peco and Wrenn of "universal" points in which the wing rail closed to the point of the frog to provide a continuous surface through the crossing. The check rails were purely cosmetic if they were there at all. (Peco points of the time were supplied as kits, so whether or not check rails were fitted was down to the individual.)
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GeraldH
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby GeraldH » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:45 am

Once the original wheels have been removed, new bearings can be made by glueing matchsticks into the axle-boxes with the new wheels in place. It works best if you drill a small hole into the inside end of each matchstick for the pin point of the axle. Once the glue has dried, the excess can be cut off with a razor saw and the exposed end painted black,. Be careful not to get glue onto the inside end of the matchstick where the axle sits. I've been doing this for years and it works very well after a bit of practice.

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alex3410
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:35 pm

really interesting stuff, as usual a few things on my to do list that this will help out with :)

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Bufferstop
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:27 pm

The matchstick bearing works better if the axles have a longer taper, the point crushes the fibres of the wood and forms a bearing surface. When I first saw it done it was to fit Peco hard nylon wheelsets.
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GaryB
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby GaryB » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:32 pm

Thanks for all the comments. I'm probably pushing my luck now, but is it possible to do similar for older Hornby DMU's? I have an immaculate (boxed) DMU set that also struggles over points, I was going to sell it but if it's possible to do this (including driven wheels) on it I'd certainly be interested.

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GeraldH
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Re: New wheels for older Hornby/Triang coaches?

Postby GeraldH » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:08 pm

GaryB wrote:Thanks for all the comments. I'm probably pushing my luck now, but is it possible to do similar for older Hornby DMU's? I have an immaculate (boxed) DMU set that also struggles over points, I was going to sell it but if it's possible to do this (including driven wheels) on it I'd certainly be interested.


If you can post a photo of the unit and the wheels, I'm sure we'll be able to come up with some suggestions for you :) .
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My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854


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