Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

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mixturesweb
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Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby mixturesweb » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:27 am

Morning all,

Quick question: (I'm refering more specifically to Hornby East Coast Mk4s but any Mk4 will do).

Is there any difference, model wise, between a standard class Mk4 and a first class Mk4?

I know the numbers are different but I'm thinking that if I bought some first class Mk4s and renumbered them, would there be anything else I need to change?

Cheers
Luke
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Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby Bigmet » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:44 am

Internal seating layout. Same body shell is my understanding, but the seats more closely packed in.

All mk4s are East Coast mk4s at the moment, but that's now about to change as the 91+mk4 sets are displaced from the ECML by 800 sets.

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hairyhandedfool
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby hairyhandedfool » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:24 am

Different coaches have different window arrangements, this applies to standard and first class coaches, and yes, the internal seating layout is different.

My current understanding is that originally the outer coach designs were the same, but later refurbishments have changed that.

On 'Mallard' refurbished sets (red door GNER coaches and later), with the small windows seen to the right.....

- TSO & FO coaches have one window which is painted over. You need to remove the small window nearest the door.
- TSOD & FOD coaches have no small windows. You will need to remove both small windows.
- TSOE coaches are as TSO coaches, but only have one end gangway door (at the end with the small window).

On the opposite side all coaches appear to have two small windows.

Internal seat layout differs by First class having 2+1 seating around tables, and standard class having 2+2 seating mostly in 'airline' formation.

As a note on formation, all coaches have the small windows at the end nearest the DVT, except the 'Mallard' refurbished buffet car, which was reversed due to it changing from First class to standard class.

Standard set - 91-TSOE-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RFB-FO-FO-DVT
Pullman set - 91-TSOE-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RFB-FO-FO-FO-DVT
'Mallard' sets - 91-TSOE-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSOD-RSB-FO-FOD-FO-DVT
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mixturesweb
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby mixturesweb » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:49 am

Thank you for the info guys although I'm not sure I made myself quite clear.

I want to know if the Hornby coaches show the differences that the real things do :D
Luke
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Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby Bigmet » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:05 am

Luke, probably 'not completely' as the models are based on what are relatively old mouldings now, and there have been refurbs to the real things since the model was first introduced. Really you are in specialist territory if you want to know whether the mk4 looks right for the livery and class designation it is carrying. I don't know if there is mk4 study group that documents these things. If there isn't you might have to start one. Quite serious about this, that's the way that railway vehicles get characterised for modelling purposes, by the efforts of the people that want to get them right as models.

I only ride in the things every now and again, and my biggest concerns are whether the coffee is (1) something that tastes like strong coffee and (2) hot when it arrives at my seat and (3) the steward comes round regularly with refills. (Since the end of GNER they have failed on all three, so I buy a large insulated mug full before departure and carry it on.)

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End2end
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby End2end » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:24 am

Bigmet wrote:a large insulated mug

Sounds like the guy who's got the East Coast Mainline franchise. :lol:
I used to travel on HST's a few times a year to see family in the S.W. and your spot on Bigmet. Railway fare has never been very appetising.
I've even travelled in the sleeper car although I am not sure what Class it was but it was one of the "jam sandwich" livieried coaches after the blue/grey era.
Walking through the trains I did notice that the seating positions were different between the 1st and 2nd (standard) class coaches being that all 2nd class had 4 seats per table whereas in 1st you had 3 or even 2 seats per table depending on where inside the coach the table was sited.

As my layout cannot accomodate a full train I have consigned myself to the power and dummy cars, 2 normal coaches, a buffet car and sleeper car, all Mk4's.
I can only imagine, in model terms, what a full consist looks like as I have the 4 coaches sitting on the layout connected together at the moment and they are the longer versions. :shock:
Thanks
End2end
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Bigmet
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby Bigmet » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:04 pm

End2end wrote:... Railway fare has never been very appetising...

I felt it was worth the first class fare on the ECML for the at seat service if I was going London-Newcastle or further, and in my experience the food and drink on offer was consistently good in BR's hands and up to the end of the GNER operation of this route. You just had to remember on the 225 to grab hold of the bottle of vino for the Morpeth curve...

Scenically the Northern end of the ECML is a delight, and four hours in a comfy chair watching the world go by while being fed and watered was 'rather pleasant', especially with a comfortable hotel just a couple of hundred yards away in prospect on reaching Edinburgh. The idea of building a city among extinct volcanic cones is one that still entertains, and the ECML is definitely the best way to appreciate this on arrival.

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End2end
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby End2end » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:25 pm

Bigmet wrote:Scenically the Northern end of the ECML is a delight

Most definatly. There's no scenic travel like rail travel. :)
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hairyhandedfool
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby hairyhandedfool » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:05 pm

End2end wrote:.....As my layout cannot accomodate a full train I have consigned myself to the power and dummy cars, 2 normal coaches, a buffet car and sleeper car, all Mk4's....


There are no Mk4 sleeper cars.

The Hornby models of the Mk4 (TSO, RFB, FO) are reasonably accurate for the 'as-built' Mk4s, however they never made a model of the TSOE. Not a big problem for a short set like yours, but might be an issue for those wanting to model the whole train.
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End2end
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Re: Hornby Mk4s: First Vs Standard

Postby End2end » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:36 pm

hairyhandedfool wrote:There are no Mk4 sleeper cars.

Now you mention it, I did look and it does seem slightly off the same colouring as the others.
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