Financial Woes Continue

Discuss Hornby Model Railway products and related topics here. This includes (Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren).
trainlover23
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:28 am

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby trainlover23 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:58 am

GWR you forgot the

Class 20
Class59
GWR Rail Car
Class73
Class33
Class121/2


And all the OLD Hornby tooling used for the steam models

GWR_fan
Posts: 4794
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby GWR_fan » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:44 am

Many thanks

trainlover23
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:28 am

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby trainlover23 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:10 pm

GWR_fan wrote:Many thanks



No problem

GWR_fan
Posts: 4794
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:57 pm
Location: Antipodes

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby GWR_fan » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:26 pm

I recall several years ago that Hornby outlayed GBP600k to leave Kader (ex-Sanda Kan) with a few bits of tooling in their pocket. Alas, apparently the old tooling was not compatible with the newer factories tooling. A little short sightedness. I wonder how much of the tooling is collecting dust due its incompatability.

User avatar
RAF96
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:39 pm
Location: Dereham, Norfolk, UK

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby RAF96 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:29 pm

Tooling interfaces can be a problem but if you are handing over existing tooling to a new supplier it behoves them to provide the connection or it would if I was wrangling the contract.
Rob
RAF Halton Brat - 96th Entry
http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html
β-tester

Meister
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby Meister » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:13 pm

I think that there should be a place for Railroad. As my main interest is diesel, I am not bothered about expensive finescale steam locomotives when all I actually want is a few basic ones to add variety to my layout. This is where Railroad steam locomotives come in very useful. They can be weathered/detailed to look good and the tank engines are perfect for repainting in private owner liveries. The ones I have bought have all run well straight from the box with no issues at all in service. I understand that they are are not for everyone but are fine for my purposes and represent money well spent. Whether or not Railroad is a viable business proposition for Hornby is, of course, a completely different question.

Notanyware
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:12 am

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby Notanyware » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:22 am

Meister wrote:I think that there should be a place for Railroad. As my main interest is diesel, I am not bothered about expensive finescale steam locomotives when all I actually want is a few basic ones to add variety to my layout. This is where Railroad steam locomotives come in very useful. They can be weathered/detailed to look good and the tank engines are perfect for repainting in private owner liveries. The ones I have bought have all run well straight from the box with no issues at all in service. I understand that they are are not for everyone but are fine for my purposes and represent money well spent. Whether or not Railroad is a viable business proposition for Hornby is, of course, a completely different question.


I agree 100% not everyone needs super detailed locomotives in fact the only one I ever owned was a Hornby T9 that virtually fell to pieces. not only that some modellers are just as happy running second hand or Railroad models. sadly these days even Railroad locos are getting expensive so the second hand market is looking pretty good to an ever increasing amount of modellers.

Cheers
Dave.

b308
Posts: 4868
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby b308 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:50 am

What EXACTLY is "too expensive"?!!!


(From what i can see the RR stuff is quite reasonably priced, considering the manufacturer and retailer both have to make some sort of profit and the fact that the RRP is always discounted anyhow... And you get a guarantee which you don't with most S/H which also costs money)

Bigmet
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby Bigmet » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:05 pm

GWR_fan wrote:I recall several years ago that Hornby outlayed GBP600k to leave Kader (ex-Sanda Kan) with a few bits of tooling in their pocket. Alas, apparently the old tooling was not compatible with the newer factories tooling. A little short sightedness. I wonder how much of the tooling is collecting dust due its incompatability.

That payment also covered some final production runs in my recollection. There was one admitted problem during the transition period, the entire tooling for the B17 model then in development had to be abandoned and new tooling created, but no specific explanation was ever given. Quite possible that one day a safely long retired party might divulge what went wrong (what was shown of the CAD and 3D prints of the abandoned version looked good).

It would take a collector's guide compiler to work out which of the models produced during the Sanda Kan years have not re-emerged since Hornby's exit from Sanda Kan, and their current use of multiple production businesses. The 'big one' that I am aware of is the BR std 6MT Clan pacific which is surrounded by stories of tooling lost or damaged, wholly or in part, preventing production. But whatever the truth may be, Hornby have quite recently stated that they still have the capability to produce this model.

User avatar
D605Eagle
Posts: 2594
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby D605Eagle » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:44 pm

b308 wrote:What EXACTLY is "too expensive"?!!!


(From what i can see the RR stuff is quite reasonably priced, considering the manufacturer and retailer both have to make some sort of profit and the fact that the RRP is always discounted anyhow... And you get a guarantee which you don't with most S/H which also costs money)

Some things happen occasionally that make you question exactly how much a model costs to make. Take the ex Airfix 14xx. When Hornby acquired the tooling and mildly updated it with blackened the wheels and rods and started selling it in 1999 the list price IIRC was 59 odd quid. Over the years the price rose and rose until it was near 80 odd quid. Then after a break it reappeared in the railroad range and the price? Now £49.95. There's no way they were making it at a loss and yes they had changed the chassis, but it doesn't to me look any cheaper to make or build, the only thing missing is a spring. I can't believe that the likes of ex Lima stuff would cost much more than pennies to make so selling them for close to £80 a pop must have a huge profit margin.

User avatar
D605Eagle
Posts: 2594
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby D605Eagle » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:48 pm

Bigmet wrote: The 'big one' that I am aware of is the BR std 6MT Clan pacific which is surrounded by stories of tooling lost or damaged, wholly or in part, preventing production. But whatever the truth may be, Hornby have quite recently stated that they still have the capability to produce this model.

Bit of an odd one that, because considering the price second hand ones fetch, if Hornby could make a Clan you think they would. Almost guaranteed instant sell out with their modern production runs.

Bigmet
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby Bigmet » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:27 pm

D605Eagle wrote: Some things happen occasionally that make you question exactly how much a model costs to make...

Consumer goods such as model railway product cost pennies at the end of the factory manufacturing line per pound of sale price, as a general rule. The price will then rise by percentages for factory profit, shipping, share of Brand operations cost, Brand profit, distribution, retailer profit. Quite where the end customer price is pitched at is more dependent on consumer market conditions than manufacturing cost.

Any manufacturer will milk its cash cows for all that is possible. A fully amortised tooling that still sells because it's of a popular subject will be sold at one price when it is the only game in town. When a superior competitor arrives the price can fall. The only consideration for the Brand operation is whether it still achieves the target profit margin from the opportunity that the manufacturing slot and shipping cost represent. When the achievable retail price fails to yield the target profit margin, then that's typically the end of production of that item.

That may well be the story behind the end of TTTE from Hornby, for which a licence fee is payable, adding to the retail cost. It may still have been a profitable product, but out-performed in profit for Hornby by using the manufacturing slots for their wholly owned alternatives.

D605Eagle wrote:...considering the price second hand ones fetch, if Hornby could make a Clan you think they would...

Hornby, and all the other businesses are largely guided by their retailers in such decisions. Possibly it is only relatively few people chasing the now nearly unobtainable Clans that were produced, and just 100 of even a small production run of a 1000 will sell, leaving the rest on shelves or in Hornby's warehouse. It is what the dealers ask for - based on what their customers tell them - that largely defines what a business like Hornby puts on the list of re-releases in their next year programme. Then they wait for retailer orders in response to that list. Anything that doesn't get the minimum number of retailer orders is then cancelled from the annual programme list: they only manufacture what dealers have placed sufficient orders for. This latter aspect is a familiar process that gets fairly well publicised. Dealers are the effective decision makers, and it appears that up until now they have not believed the Clans are rising...

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 11345
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:50 pm

Manufacturers with any sense these days put questionnaires on their websites to try to get an idea of what their customers would like them to produce or re-run. Those that don't or do but then ignore them deserve to go out of business.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
D605Eagle
Posts: 2594
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby D605Eagle » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:17 pm

Knowing several owners of model shops, Hornby have a long history of totally ignoring what shops tell them, so I'm sure its not that that is stopping them manufacturing more clans.

Notanyware
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:12 am

Re: Financial Woes Continue

Postby Notanyware » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:47 pm

EXPENSIVE is when you are living in Australia and paying the around £50uk for a Hornby 0-4-0 loco. yes some will say buy online but after working as a postman in Oz for 24 years and seeing how a 4ft bag of parcels gets chucked off the back of a truck its no thanks for me. I still remember the sound of Franklin Mint plates smashing as the bags hit the deck.
This brings me to another point as yesterday I visited our nearest Hornby dealer. this shop has been selling Hornby trains for well over 50 years and always carry a large range of Hornby locos and rolling stock. to my surprise yesterday they only had about a dozen coaches and half a dozen goods wagons in stock, I asked them why there was so little Hornby stuff in stock and was told that they were clearing it out because it had become to expensive to have sitting on the shelves and was very slow to shift, I noticed that the range of American locos and rolling stock had replaced Hornby with a large range by Walthers, Atlas, Kato and Bachmann US, I was told they consider that stuff to be better quality and value, so for an ex Brummy lad like myself its bye bye to new Hornby on my side of Brisbane and hello to shows and table sales.

Cheers
Dave


Return to “Hornby - including Lima, Rivarossi, Jouef, Electrotren”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests